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    Post  zeheckle Fri May 28, 2010 6:06 am

    ok so this is in the 20e 6max 5k gtd 2nd chance on microgaming im sitting like 3rd with 34k in chips with 37 left im 19 off the money



    ok so im utg with Kc Qc

    and make my standard raise to 950 and 200/400 with 40 running ante

    and utg +1(guy next to me) min raises to 1500 he has about 27k in chips he had seemed quite tight as i would raise his bb everytime if folded to me he didnt play a pot with me and he only re raised me once so on the hole id say a very passive player

    so the bet was 550 more so a pretty standard call unless it get re raised i make up the 550 and the flop comes Qs 8d 2h

    it now goes check check and the turn came a Kd


    hand continued:


    i bet 2800 1st to act into 3800 and now he raises to 6000
    i now shove for 30k and he calls with 8s 8c


    now i have no problems with how i played the hand as i feel alot of the time he has AA KK QQ AK and given i have KQ i felt i could rule those out as a K and a Q came on the bored if he does have those nh move on to the next mtt

    was i too quick to rule out 88?? as a guy 2nd to act sittin in top 10 of a mtt(with 37left) would he really min raise a mid pair after a raise utg

    ill be honest 88 never came into my head once in the hand and once he raised on the turn i thought it was AA AK as didnt seem the tpye of player to check QQQ



    time to start playing now but ill leave this like it is and if anyone has any questions just ask!




    sorry its been a while since i posted a hand on a forum Embarassed

    any extra info needed just say


    Last edited by zeheckle on Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  MADV Fri May 28, 2010 6:22 am

    I'm going nowhere on the hand. If I'm beat, I'm beat.

    What is utg+1 btw? Is he tight? Likely to bet with air? A great player? What's his stack size?

    With the K I'm betting about the pot so that AJ, A10 and flush draws have to pay to see. If he RR I'm all in.

    We'll see what happens next after a few more replies . . .
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    Post  zeheckle Fri May 28, 2010 6:40 am

    MADV wrote:I'm going nowhere on the hand. If I'm beat, I'm beat.

    What is utg+1 btw? Is he tight? Likely to bet with air? A great player? What's his stack size?

    With the K I'm betting about the pot so that AJ, A10 and flush draws have to pay to see. If he RR I'm all in.

    We'll see what happens next after a few more replies . . .


    sorry mate edited it a bit now hope thats better? been a while since ive posted a hand on a forum lol
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    Post  MADV Fri May 28, 2010 7:26 am

    zeheckle wrote:[...]

    sorry mate edited it a bit now hope thats better? been a while since ive posted a hand on a forum lol

    No problem, mate. I'll wait to see what other people think before we continue, but as I said, I don't care how tight he is, if I flop top two pair with no flush on board, it's like a set - I'm going bust.
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    Post  ieatu4dindin Fri May 28, 2010 9:23 am

    This is not difficult 6 max continue the hand?lol...only concern he has monster but this situation u gotta play your hand top 2 pair i'd be thinking your safely ahead here and also i would of put a tester bet out on the flop,then if he reraises u know where your at,maybe put him on AQ then.
    Right now the turn aggression i'd be thinking your ahead so bet pot if he reraises i have no problem going allin and if he shows KK QQ then nh him lol!

    Like to see the outcome.
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    Post  khenny Fri May 28, 2010 3:07 pm

    I am married to this hand m8 and I aint contemplating a divorce!!

    He goes all in and my chips are making scorch marks on the felt they are in so fast.

    If he bets heavy on the K then I gotta put him on AK or AA. Either hand is gettin thwacked by you at this point. The only hand i could possibly put him on that he would chk the flop with is QQQ. If that's what he has then ho hum, it's a bummer but move on to the next one and try again.
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    Post  Bubster Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:37 am

    most obvious choice for his hand seems to be AA... but why did he check the flop behind you after min-reraising, seems very odd.

    Has he done any of these weird small reraises pre previously? Some players will only do it with AA and KK, others will do it with a wide range.

    Strange that he checks the flop tho, if his initial range was AK AQ or any med-high pair, then which of those does he check behind you? I can see him checking AA if first to act but not behind you, same with KK and AQ probably, so I'm thinking he has - AK, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99, 88, 77.

    I dont see him with much else here apart from a strange aa/kk/aq check. Preflop action rules out most drawing hands like A10 or J10 probably.

    With this in mind you either have him crushed (JJ/AQ etc), or he has you crushed (QQ 88). If your ahead he isn't going to call you off for all his chips unless he has AK or the less likely AA, if he's ahead your probably not folding (tho on ace on thr river might change that). There arent many bad cards for you really, so I'd try and keep things cheap and let him bet if he wants too, so i'd check to him here, and then probably check call river too.
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    Post  MADV Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:12 am

    Bubster wrote:most obvious choice for his hand seems to be AA... but why did he check the flop behind you after min-reraising, seems very odd.

    Has he done any of these weird small reraises pre previously? Some players will only do it with AA and KK, others will do it with a wide range.

    Strange that he checks the flop tho, if his initial range was AK AQ or any med-high pair, then which of those does he check behind you? I can see him checking AA if first to act but not behind you, same with KK and AQ probably, so I'm thinking he has - AK, QQ, JJ, 1010, 99, 88, 77.

    I dont see him with much else here apart from a strange aa/kk/aq check. Preflop action rules out most drawing hands like A10 or J10 probably.

    With this in mind you either have him crushed (JJ/AQ etc), or he has you crushed (QQ 88). If your ahead he isn't going to call you off for all his chips unless he has AK or the less likely AA, if he's ahead your probably not folding (tho on ace on thr river might change that). There arent many bad cards for you really, so I'd try and keep things cheap and let him bet if he wants too, so i'd check to him here, and then probably check call river too.

    I see your thinking here, bub, but without going into in-depth explanations, this seems such weak play to me. Mayhap that's what you need to finish good in an MTT but it's not the way I'd play.

    As I said previously, I'm going broke in this hand, as I don't think you can win many MTTs only putting your chips in with better than 2 pair.
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    Post  zeheckle Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:51 am

    i have edited it now
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    Post  MADV Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:10 am

    zeheckle wrote:i have edited it now

    I stand by the fact that I'd lose my chips in this pot. However, a check RR on the turn would have slowed me down and I'd have called check called hoping to see the river for around 10k leaving myself 20k. This is not based on the outcome, but is based upon your tournament position and the reraise pre - check flop - check reraise turn situation.
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    Post  Bubster Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:36 pm

    so you disagree with the check call.

    then you see he got reraised when he bet

    and now you like the check call?

    Rolling Eyes tongue
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    Post  MADV Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:24 am

    Bubster wrote:so you disagree with the check call.

    then you see he got reraised when he bet

    and now you like the check call?

    Rolling Eyes tongue

    That's pretty much exactly it, yes. I re-evaluate as the hand progresses. When people play a hand like that (remember, most people are strict ABC with a bit of mentalist mentality for calling or going all in with shite). They very rarely 'do' check re-raising without the goods.

    Do I contradict myself here? Sorry if I have, perhaps I'm letting the outcome affect my judgement.
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    Post  wildrick Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:52 am

    I think if oppo hadn't reraised, this hand would play itself, and you'd most likely lose your stack.

    However the weird reraise pre will definitely make me slow down - Id be polarising his range as AA KK QQ mbe AK, 2 of which you beat, 2 of which have you crushed... I'm not saying I'd get away from it, but it's not as cut and dried as it could be.

    When you raise pre, get min reraised, call, and check flop, and opponent checks behind, i'm always worried. Its such an obvious spot for him to bet with any hand. Although its an odd line for AK, I cant see AK checking behind on flop having taken that line.

    As a side note - I wonder what happens if you bet the flop? If you bet a reasonable amount and get called you can rule out AK. If you get reraised you can assume youre beat by AA KK QQ etc and fold. He probably flats and then you hit 2 pr on turn, and you go broke anyway, but I'd be interested to see lol.

    As it happens, when you get reraised on turn I'd definitely be thinking AA KK QQ, im not saying i could fold, but id certainly be wary.

    Oh and wtf is he doing with 88. Donkaments. lmao
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    Post  ieatu4dindin Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:39 am

    88 nice u got played;).....well thats just poker pretty difficult to get away from KQ here just a set up.Wink
    I agree betting flop is important here to get idea where u at but prob not change the outcome he seems good enough to trap you.
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    Post  zeheckle Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:17 am

    i see your point rick
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    Post  KunkuWap Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:56 am

    Hi guys,

    I haven't posted in a while but saw this post and even though it seems incredibly simple, there are still some things we should note.

    firstly, tournament, I can't stress enough that it's about preserving chips and not necessarily what is the most profitable move over 1,000 scenarios, but just for this scenario. IMO anyway.

    Given this, clearly, when you call his min raise preflop you are looking to hit a monster as you HAVE to be worried about premiums.

    When flop comes Q82, well, you probably have to give serious consideration to just ch folding. Strangely enough he checks behind. This only really makes sense for AK or poss JJ 1010. Anyway, the turn comes K, which is great if our read is correct.

    So now we bet, and he does a tiny reraise. Given that you are both large stacks, if you reraise allin and the fact that you opened UTG, he should realise his AK (which is the only hand we can put him on) is beat and he'll fold. Also, there is the slim possibility that he has QQQ.

    So, if he is going to fold everything we beat to our shove and only get called by crushed hands. It makes no sense to reraise. I would elect to call here and check call the river as it will allow him to incorrectly value bet AK, turn his JJ 10-10 into random bluffs and if we are beat, then we are losing our chips anyway!

    Tournaments!! ARRGGHH !!!!


    gl all
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    Post  zeheckle Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:32 pm

    hey kunku

    thx for your input

    aint you in vegas?
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    Post  KunkuWap Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:53 pm

    v shortly....
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    Post  zeheckle Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:08 pm

    nice glgl
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    Post  hopelesglory Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:40 pm

    Nice post Heckle matey

    Superrrrrrrr tricky hand to play, his raise (and image) obv represents a pre flop monster.

    I'm not sure what your image is at the table as this may affect his raising requirements, but his raise says to me: "I have a premium hand, but I only want 1 caller" so gotta be thinking very minimum: AQ JJ!

    Queen high and empty flop makes it 10x trickier - no easy escape for you!

    I think I would initially check the flop like u did, but with the intention to re-raise any C bet that isn't super scary (e.g a pot size bet) and then give up on the hand if that failed.
    This would hopefully define the hand right there - it makes a lot of his possible holdings, AK, JJ, TT or a bluff fold (always got to consider that people may be bluffing!) - there's no draws so he won't be fishing, so any call or re raise by him means you can give up on hand assuming your beat.

    Or I would check-fold the flop and wait for a better opportunity depending on my table mood (note the pot is getting pretty big already).

    I guess this would depend on how I felt I was running at the table, if my raises are getting through and I have good reads on player etc I'd prob wait for a better opportunity to get in a big pot, however if everyone is re-raising me and my reads are off etc I might go for the check-raise option.

    However once he checks behind on flop, I'd be in an epic state of confusion lol....(This only happens with a monster or a very passive AK surely?!?)

    Anyway you both check and the turn brings top 2 pair for you. I 100% agree with Kunka's comments and reasoning (I know easy to say in hindsight!) so I'm not going to repeat.

    I've been in similiar situations; e.g. hit the top 2 pair on river and am 90% sure oppenant has AA - get carried away and instantly renosh all in (despite being deep!), then he calls with something better and I end up out of the tournament...only to think after, "why did I do that without even a seconds thought???" lol Guilty!

    So I can't criticise your play and chances are you will double vs AA a good percentage of the time

    However the only advice I would offer you is:
    To ensure you take your time on every hand to think about the best possible play, using all the information available to you (no insta-clicks or judgements being clouded by euphoria cards!)...especially in big pots! - I.e say you did read him for AA then you would still be better off flatting the turn and shoving any safe river card because if he is gonna call an all in on the turn with AA, I doubt there are many cards that would change his mind on river (but a dangerous river could save you a mug off and a few chips)

    UL hand mate, nice post - will see you at the tables Wink

    Steve (hopelesglory, Vegasnegative)

    P.S. gj in the rehab

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