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MADV
GlasgowAlex
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    wwyd?

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    Post  GlasgowAlex Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:05 am

    Played 19 hands at this table opponent had folded 14 times before the flop, I had similar stats and had won a couple of small pots wwyd? I will post hand as played after some opinions.

    Table 'Urhixidur X' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: pcboi ($64.40 in chips)
    Seat 2: podong0 ($56.60 in chips)
    Seat 3: gerbard ($19.25 in chips)
    Seat 4: erac22 ($51.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: MUCHACHON ($50 in chips)
    Seat 6: Springburn ($55.55 in chips)
    Seat 7: icepaw1225 ($107.20 in chips)
    Seat 8: deuce0 ($50 in chips)
    Seat 9: Lahesell ($53.90 in chips)
    podong0: posts small blind $0.25
    gerbard: posts big blind $0.50
    deuce0: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Springburn
    10h Kh

    erac22: calls $0.50
    MUCHACHON: folds
    Springburn: raises $1.50 to $2
    icepaw1225: folds
    deuce0: folds
    Lahesell: raises $4.50 to $6.50
    pcboi: folds
    podong0: folds
    gerbard: folds
    erac22: folds

    Springburn: wwyd & why???



    Last edited by GlasgowAlex on Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
    MADV
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    Post  MADV Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:28 am

    The way I play cash, and only for that reason, I'd call. I want the table to think I'm insane. I want them to call of all of their stack with 1 pair etc.

    If you're just someone who plays hands as they come however (like a rake whore) then I suggest that the +ve move here is a fold. If you hit a K you've no clue where you are and with only $50 behind it's probably easy to lose the lot on a K high board. 2 hearts flop and it's the same outcome (that is, of course, unless you hit).

    The one thing I wouldn't do is re-raise. Fold fine for some, but I'm calling.
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    Post  tripedd Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:05 am

    I dont play cash that often but i would see a flop and be aggresive as much as i can on a cash table as you can always re load if busted. To be fair im looser than a hookers knickers. I watched a DVD on cash games recently promoting a hyper aggressive game playing suited connecters like aces for instance so you are very often re raising always making your opponent think. I cant remember the name as its my mates but will post title on this thread after i see him tonight. Hopefully it will help!
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    Post  CARNIVORE04 Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:58 am

    Obviously all the fish call ffsh

    I fold cause i always lose at cash games but at least by folding i can last a little longer tumbleweed
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:29 pm


    Table 'Urhixidur X' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: pcboi ($64.40 in chips)
    Seat 2: podong0 ($56.60 in chips)
    Seat 3: gerbard ($19.25 in chips)
    Seat 4: erac22 ($51.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: MUCHACHON ($50 in chips)
    Seat 6: Springburn ($55.55 in chips)
    Seat 7: icepaw1225 ($107.20 in chips)
    Seat 8: deuce0 ($50 in chips)
    Seat 9: Lahesell ($53.90 in chips)
    podong0: posts small blind $0.25
    gerbard: posts big blind $0.50
    deuce0: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Springburn
    10h Kh

    erac22: calls $0.50
    MUCHACHON: folds
    Springburn: raises $1.50 to $2
    icepaw1225: folds
    deuce0: folds
    Lahesell: raises $4.50 to $6.50
    pcboi: folds
    podong0: folds
    gerbard: folds
    erac22: folds
    Springburn: calls $4.50
    *** FLOP *** 8s 10d Kd

    Springburn: wwyd now & why???
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    Post  wildrick Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:01 pm

    well pre flop I'm folding - Out of position against 1 oppo, no need to get in a mess here. It's going to cost 9bbs to call, and the pot isnt laying massive odds really.

    If anyone else had called before it got back to you then I'm happy to call with the increased value and double the potential for payoff if you hit.

    Also 3 players or more in the hand does 2 other things - it makes raiser c-bet less on missed flops, and also increases his cbet if he does make one (more in pot already). With this in mind you're either going to get a free turn, or face a larger pot defining bet, making your play a bit easier.

    ___________

    Assuming you flat call and see the turn...

    I'm now going to make a slow weak donk bet (mbe $1.50)on this flop first to act. I'm basically representing any draw, looking like im trying to control the pot with a blocker bet. This is a great flop for this, as it's got quite a few draws about that any AA AK kind of hand is going to be pretty scared of. It also looks quite weak.

    With this in mind the plan here is that I think a bit, then make small bet, and oppo reraises. Depending on the size or his reraise you could either flat call and shove any safe looking turn, or reshove ott. If he has any kind of huge hand, drawing hand (AQ AJ) or even complete drivel, he'll prob look to reraise a weak looking bet fairly often.

    If he flat calls the donk bet, then we can re-evaluate on the turn.

    nb: if he has KK / 1010 then nice flop, wd him.

    also nb: I don't play hold'em cash. Ever. Only omaha/hilo cash, and hold em mtts, so to quote the great sox himself... wtf do i know??!!



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    Post  wildrick Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:05 pm

    Important question - deserving of its own post...

    You say you'd played 19 hands on the table, and oppo had folded 14 - What had he done on the others?

    Also, did you watch the table before you sat down? This is something i do virtually every session i play on cash - I settle myself down to play, with fresh brew etc, load up a few tables, then just watch the action for 15 minutes, see whats going on. Can give you some valuable info before you even play a hand, definitely a habit worth getting in to...
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:14 am

    wildrick wrote:Important question - deserving of its own post...

    You say you'd played 19 hands on the table, and oppo had folded 14 - What had he done on the others?


    There had actually been 18 hands played.
    He folded 7 hands preflop without betting
    He folded 3 SB preflop without betting
    He called 2 hands preflop and folded Preflop to a raise
    he folded 1 hand on turn
    He folded 1 hand on river
    He got 1 walk on the BB
    He won 2 other pots of between £1.25 & $5.75
    He started with $59.90 now down to $53.90
    I had started with $50 now at $55.55

    And 1 other hand played which we dont know the result of yet!!

    Hope this helps
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    Post  wildrick Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:21 am

    GlasgowAlex wrote:
    wildrick wrote:Important question - deserving of its own post...

    You say you'd played 19 hands on the table, and oppo had folded 14 - What had he done on the others?


    There had actually been 18 hands played.
    He folded 7 hands preflop without betting
    He folded 3 SB preflop without betting
    He called 2 hands preflop and folded Preflop to a raise
    he folded 1 hand on turn
    He folded 1 hand on river
    He got 1 walk on the BB
    He won 2 other pots of between £1.25 & $5.75
    He started with $59.90 now down to $53.90
    I had started with $50 now at $55.55

    And 1 other hand played which we dont know the result of yet!!

    Hope this helps

    yup nothing here changes my original response - im folding pre flop! What I'm looking for from the other 18 hnds is whether he has 3 bet preflop before, and whether he has cbet after raising/3betting pre. For instance if he had 3bet pre a few times previously, and then c bet high or checked on the flops he saw, then I'm a lot more likely to call him here. From the sounds of it tho im sticking by my first post.
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    Post  geordieneil Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:46 am

    u hit top 2??

    1stly i don't enter the pot at all, not on a 9 seater

    if i had made a raise and was reraised, it's a very easy fold, esp as he seems to have been pretty tight and thers nothing really to fight over in the middle at that time.

    but you did call, u flopped top 2?? what flop were u hoping for with KT sooooooted Wink flopping a royal Wink lol
    i bet out about 3/4 pot, the board is very draw heavy, but only one had to fear i'm behind to which is KK, think he would of flatted with TT or 88, if he's got AA or AK he's gonna reraise you and happy days, you might be counterfieted but 95% sure ur ahead here, and if he does reraise, there's smoke behind my chip i get em in so quick.

    anyway what was the outcome?
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:16 pm

    By raising 4BB entering the pot UTG+1 with Kh 10h is narrowing the field to players with High Aces and PP.
    So any callers and i know I am likely behind but happy to see the flop being a 35%-49% dog. (Better chance of improving to the winning hand against 1 opp than against 2 or 3)
    Any raise especially in late posiion i see as an attempt to steal, so i call.
    Why re-raise with a big hand when your opponent is raising and betting into the pot and you have position on him??


    Last edited by GlasgowAlex on Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:54 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:45 am

    Table 'Urhixidur X' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: pcboi ($64.40 in chips)
    Seat 2: podong0 ($56.60 in chips)
    Seat 3: gerbard ($19.25 in chips)
    Seat 4: erac22 ($51.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: MUCHACHON ($50 in chips)
    Seat 6: Springburn ($55.55 in chips)
    Seat 7: icepaw1225 ($107.20 in chips)
    Seat 8: deuce0 ($50 in chips)
    Seat 9: Lahesell ($53.90 in chips)
    podong0: posts small blind $0.25
    gerbard: posts big blind $0.50
    deuce0: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Springburn
    10h Kh

    erac22: calls $0.50
    MUCHACHON: folds
    Springburn: raises $1.50 to $2
    icepaw1225: folds
    deuce0: folds
    Lahesell: raises $4.50 to $6.50
    pcboi: folds
    podong0: folds
    gerbard: folds
    erac22: folds
    Springburn: calls $4.50
    *** FLOP *** 8s 10d Kd

    Springburn: checks
    Lahesell: bets $8
    Springburn: ????

    wwyd now and why???

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    Post  geordieneil Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:25 am

    GlasgowAlex wrote:By raising 4BB entering the pot UTG+1 with Kh 10h is narrowing the field to players with High Aces and PP.
    So any callers and i know I am likely behind but happy to see the flop being a 35%-49% dog. (Better chance of improving to the winning hand against 1 opp than against 2 or 3)
    Any raise especially in late posiion i see as an attempt to steal, so i call.
    Why re-raise with a big hand when your opponent is raising and betting into the pot and you have position on him??

    please don't take this the wrong way alex, you've asked for advice, so lets call this constructive critisism.
    your play so far(in this hand), is very -ev in the long run. you DON'T have position on him, he has position on you. and his play previously never suggests he is stealing, stealing what exactly? $3.25 hardly worth it.
    without this flop u have just wasted $6.50 unless your prepared to bluff him off the hand, but he has shown very strong strength pre flop, so that looks unlikely, and even tho you have hit the flop hard, u might be behind still, or very possibly out drawn.
    sorry mate its been bad play by you pre flop, you've been very lucky(or possibly unlucky) to hit the flop so hard.

    regardless, you called pre and hit the flop hard, firstly.......why check??????? yes you hit the board hard, but that board is very draw heavy,if you are ahead, and he has outs against you, you got to make them pay for them outs....not only that, he showed strength preflop, so AK or AA are definately in his range, he pays you for sure....he probably calls you with QQ,JJ,AQ,AJ,AT,QK,JK,JQ....and for sure Ad Xd.TBH his stregth preflop, its highly unlikely he hasn't got a bit of that flop.
    now he chose to bet $8 when he could of checked and got a free card(you might of let him hit a set,str8,flush, a better 2 pair)...all which are beating you, sorry Alex, but the way you played this hand is pretty much wrong from every point.

    on your question wwyd after he bet $8, i shove and close my eyes
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:09 am

    geordieneil wrote:
    GlasgowAlex wrote:By raising 4BB entering the pot UTG+1 with Kh 10h is narrowing the field to players with High Aces and PP.
    So any callers and i know I am likely behind but happy to see the flop being a 35%-49% dog. (Better chance of improving to the winning hand against 1 opp than against 2 or 3)
    Any raise especially in late posiion i see as an attempt to steal, so i call.
    Why re-raise with a big hand when your opponent is raising and betting into the pot and you have position on him??

    please don't take this the wrong way alex, you've asked for advice, so lets call this constructive critisism.
    your play so far(in this hand), is very -ev in the long run. you DON'T have position on him, he has position on you. and his play previously never suggests he is stealing, stealing what exactly? $3.25 hardly worth it.


    Dont worry I wont take any opinions the wrong way Cool

    He has position on me I know, I was saying If "He" had a big hand Like AA KK or even AK why would he re-raise my UTG+1 raise and possibly put me off the hand, when he could flat call and reraise my c bet on the flop turn or river.
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:10 am

    geordieneil wrote:
    GlasgowAlex wrote:By raising 4BB entering the pot UTG+1 with Kh 10h is narrowing the field to players with High Aces and PP.
    So any callers and i know I am likely behind but happy to see the flop being a 35%-49% dog. (Better chance of improving to the winning hand against 1 opp than against 2 or 3)
    Any raise especially in late posiion i see as an attempt to steal, so i call.
    Why re-raise with a big hand when your opponent is raising and betting into the pot and you have position on him??



    you called pre and hit the flop hard, firstly.......why check???????

    I checked with the intention of re-raising him Knowing he would bet.
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:16 am

    geordieneil wrote:

    yes you hit the board hard, but that board is very draw heavy
    What Percentage of boards are very draw heavy???
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    Post  geordieneil Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:51 am



    [/quote]
    Dont worry I wont take any opinions the wrong way Cool

    He has position on me I know, I was saying If "He" had a big hand Like AA KK or even AK why would he re-raise my UTG+1 raise and possibly put me off the hand, when he could flat call and reraise my c bet on the flop turn or river.
    [/quote]

    if he had AA,KK or AK i would definately be raising, for a number of reasons, but mainly the same reason as you said,to isolate, he only wants 1 player in the pot with him, if he flats here he is pricing the rest of the table, including the blinds in. now anyone with AA,KK,QQ,JJ OR AK should always be raising. by flat calling it would be poker suicide
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    Post  geordieneil Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:55 am

    GlasgowAlex wrote:
    geordieneil wrote:

    yes you hit the board hard, but that board is very draw heavy
    What Percentage of boards are very draw heavy???

    ??? to a tight players reraise....not many, but in this case that board hits so many hands of his range...no free cards for me in that spot, not even with top set
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    Post  GlasgowAlex Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:44 pm

    Table 'Urhixidur X' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
    Seat 1: pcboi ($64.40 in chips)
    Seat 2: podong0 ($56.60 in chips)
    Seat 3: gerbard ($19.25 in chips)
    Seat 4: erac22 ($51.50 in chips)
    Seat 5: MUCHACHON ($50 in chips)
    Seat 6: Springburn ($55.55 in chips)
    Seat 7: icepaw1225 ($107.20 in chips)
    Seat 8: deuce0 ($50 in chips)
    Seat 9: Lahesell ($53.90 in chips)
    podong0: posts small blind $0.25
    gerbard: posts big blind $0.50
    deuce0: posts big blind $0.50
    *** HOLE CARDS ***
    Dealt to Springburn
    10h Kh

    erac22: calls $0.50
    MUCHACHON: folds
    Springburn: raises $1.50 to $2
    icepaw1225: folds
    deuce0: folds
    Lahesell: raises $4.50 to $6.50
    pcboi: folds
    podong0: folds
    gerbard: folds
    erac22: folds
    Springburn: calls $4.50
    *** FLOP *** 8s 10d Kd

    Springburn: checks
    Lahesell: bets $8
    Springburn: raises $12 to $20
    Lahesell: raises $27.40 to $47.40 and is all-in
    Springburn: calls $27.40
    *** TURN *** 8s 10d Kd Qs
    *** RIVER *** 8s 10d Kd Qs 3d
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    Springburn: shows 10h Kh (two pair, Kings and Tens)
    Lahesell: shows 9d 8d (a flush, King high)
    Lahesell collected $106.55 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $109.55 | Rake $3
    Board [8s Td Kd Qs 3d]
    Seat 1: pcboi (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 2: podong0 (small blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 3: gerbard (big blind) folded before Flop
    Seat 4: erac22 folded before Flop
    Seat 5: MUCHACHON folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: Springburn showed [Kh Th] and lost with two pair, Kings and Tens
    Seat 7: icepaw1225 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
    Seat 8: deuce0 folded before Flop
    Seat 9: Lahesell showed [9d 8d] and won ($106.55) with a flush, King high



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