First hand of $30 turbo

As the title says, first hand of a $30 turbo, and I'm dealt QQ in 2nd pos.

1st pos limps (20) so i make it 100 (1500 ss).

Folds to button who makes it 700

limper folds, back to me... What do you do here?

ruud wrote:As the title says, first hand of a $30 turbo, and I'm dealt QQ in 2nd pos.

1st pos limps (20) so i make it 100 (1500 ss).

Folds to button who makes it 700

limper folds, back to me... What do you do here?

Shove or fold. (Lean more towards folding)

Not helpful, but simply your only two choices in this situation.

i would agree with bainn here.

but i would be suspitious of such a big re-raise, he prob ak or jj which means ur way ahead or racing. tough decision tho.

Would be folding everyday of the week here. First hand and you have only committed 100 chippies. You don't want to cripple yourself at the start when you can easily regroup and start again.

Probably up against AK but is it really worth the race?

Fold if decent structure shove the turbo's

think i fold here, unless mbe ive seen raiser before and he's a bit loose...

Bainn wrote:
Shove or fold. (Lean more towards folding)

Not helpful, but simply your only two choices in this situation.

agreed, calling is not really an option for half your chips with overcard flopping half the time.

Its a strange one really - If the reraise was smaller it looks like AA or KK, whereas if the raise was all in it looks more like AK. Im really not sure what to make of this 700 business lol.

It seems like a dumb sized raise to me, and with it being a turbo, Im happy to think he's a bit of a donk who doesnt have AA KK or AK, and so i'm pushing here.

Did you shove and find out what he had? im going to go for 1010 or AJ/AQ...

tx all..

well i pushed, and got snap called by K10o

flop 10 high and he rivered another one lol.

Bit sick m8, but as I said. Was it worth it?

Keep on keepin on and gl at the tables dude.

ruud wrote:tx all..

well i pushed, and got snap called by K10o

flop 10 high and he rivered another one lol.

ouch ul m8

wd tho, you were right, and got them in good.

in a normal length stt id fold, but in a turbo i say shove.

only a fish would go in with this q

maybe someday if im bored ill stick up the math and explain why

is a very strange raise,i would prob fold and berate myself for being to weak when someone calls him with jacks and he shows k10,lol, worth keeping notes on these players for the future,

Overated wrote:
maybe someday if im bored ill stick up the math and explain why

id be interested in seeing that over m8....

wildrick wrote:

Overated wrote:
maybe someday if im bored ill stick up the math and explain why

id be interested in seeing that over m8....

ok, well icm dictates that in da first few levels, we need a massive equity advantage to risk are whole stack and tournament equity, and in the btns spot, its not unreasonable to assume he has a super strong range like qq+ak.

Its bascic the same principle why we dnt go round limping , callin raises etc, cause its not worth the risk.

the chips you stand to gain are not worth the icm "tax" so to speak to risk them in the first place. Tournament life is huge in sngs.

u need at least 65-70% equity to b risking ur chips early on in a sng.

This is also why u shud defo get holedem manager or watever for knowing people hand ranges. its v important in sngs. if you dont know there hand ranges then you have no idea about equity and your bassically just getting it in with the hope your ahead

if his range is qq kk aa aks or ako you have 40% in the long run eq which in early stages is not really enuf

im kinda hungover but thats the best i could write this early in da mrnin

hehe, good effort...

the thing is tho, its a weird situation.

As someone else said, if it was a standard sng, than its a fold everytime, but a turbo makes a lot of difference imo.

Also, its a very odd raise.

It looks too big to be AA/KK - as most players want a call of somekind holding AA KK here (and mbe raise to 250-400), rather than just winning 120 chips odd, and those who like to reraise big with AK here usually stick the lot in.

As u said, you need around 70% equity to shove here.... which u have got if oppo doesnt have AK AA KK.

Im not saying its an auto shove obv, but I also dont think its an auto fold. You have a top 4 hand, and youre opponent appears not to have.

Obv we cant rule aa kk out entirely, it just seems very unlikely in this situ.

Aside - if the guiy shoves instead of reraising to 700, then I prob fold, as it looks more like AK, or even mbe a panicky KK.

reraising to 700, half ss, is fairly daft imo, and therefore more likely to be someone with 1010/JJ AQ etc.

Also ICM doesnt take into account the advantage of getting a big stack early in a turbo sng.

i assume nt many of the players here take notes so my resoning is based on them

as far as they are concerend this is just another random. its an easy fold even in a turbo

you cant just say he has 2 random cards. you have to put him on something. like kj a10 type hands you prob have 70% but its unviable to assume he has hands in that range because it happens so rarely

you cant just say oh because he has k10o this time it makes it best

will have another look back later but against a random with no history its a fold on the spot

i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

wildrick wrote:i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

how can you possibly put him on this range tho? thats wat im saying

Overated wrote:

wildrick wrote:i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

how can you possibly put him on this range tho? thats wat im saying

i did explain my reasoning in the post lol. Just my opinion...

im not saying its a 100% shove, im just saying its not a 100% fold either...

so your reasoning is his bet sizing lol? thats a v bad thought process tbh. fair enuf if you have notes on the guy etc thats fine to come up with an assumpiton like that.

you also cant just say it 'looks like such and such a hand'

but against a random and in this exact situation it is a 100% fold

not having an argument just a debate btw

Overated wrote:so your reasoning is his bet sizing lol? thats a v bad thought process tbh. fair enuf if you have notes on the guy etc thats fine to come up with an assumpiton like that.

you also cant just say it 'looks like such and such a hand'

but against a random and in this exact situation it is a 100% fold

not having an argument just a debate btw

yup bet sizing is the only thing we have to go on here.

and lets face it, its the reason youre folding as well.

i respect your opinion, no worries m8, i dont do arguing (well at least not on here lol)

Just my initial gut feeling is that he doesnt have AA or KK, due to the half stack bet. Its just a bit numptyish, even for a fish

Hi, interesting debate. I agree with overated and would fold (want to play poker not bingo!)

Although I prefer normal speed games to turbos, if I ever get KK or AA first hand of a SnG and someone has already raised 100, i'm definately going to make the suspicious 700 raise (or maybe 699 to confuse Rick!)

If I get a hand like AA or KK first hand of a SnG or MTT I often like to push all in (especially if there has already been a raiser) to look like a loose gambler looking for some action...if you could consider that you may win on average (e.g.) 300 chips from playing the hand normally, but 1500 chips on average if they call the all in (assuming you start with 2000 and lose 1/4 times...I'm sure my aces get cracked more than that preflop haha!) then do you only need a person to call one in five times (1500:300) to make it more profitable than regular raising ?

Nice to start a tournament with a double up aswell..or if your aces get cracked, you can rest happy that it wasn't going to be your tournament;)

Unfortunately, if everyone folds it doesn't do your table image any favours.

hopelesglory wrote:Hi, interesting debate. I agree with overated and would fold (want to play poker not bingo!)


Although I prefer normal speed games to turbos, if I ever get KK or AA first hand of a SnG and someone has already raised 100, i'm definately going to make the suspicious 700 raise (or maybe 699 to confuse Rick!)

If I get a hand like AA or KK first hand of a SnG or MTT I often like to push all in (especially if there has already been a raiser) to look like a loose gambler looking for some action...if you could consider that you may win on average (e.g.) 300 chips from playing the hand normally, but 1500 chips on average if they call the all in (assuming you start with 2000 and lose 1/4 times...I'm sure my aces get cracked more than that preflop haha!) then do you only need a person to call one in five times (1500:300) to make it more profitable than regular raising ?

Nice to start a tournament with a double up aswell..or if your aces get cracked, you can rest happy that it wasn't going to be your tournament;)

Unfortunately, if everyone folds it doesn't do your table image any favours.

Thanks, your comments are appreciated, but you've highlighted an important point... you would shove with AA ...

If you get AA or KK first hand of a tournament, and there's a raise in front of you, the majority of players choose from 3 options...

1. Smooth call and hope someone goes crazy
2. Sly reraise to 2-300
3. Bung all in and hope there's a muppet there waiting to stack off.

The last thing most players would consider doing was raising half their stack, facing only a small raise.

Now if option 2 or 3 had happened - ie someone made a sensible reraise, or someone shoved all in, then im definitely folding the JJ.

Its the weirdness of this raise that makes me consider the all in - Im not saying I'd be burning the felt to get me chips in, but if i was folding it would definitely require a little more thought than if someone had shoved!

As it was, my case was kind of proven by the fact that crazy raiser had K10.

All this "how can you put him on this rrange" business - well I dont think he has AA or AA or AK due to the weird reriase, i dont think he has a really bad hand either, so I put him on either QQ or a reasonable hand like AQ AJ A10 KQ KJ JJ 1010 99 88 77 etc. As it was he had slightly worse, so i was wrong anyway! It was just my opinion.

I dont think you should be all in everytime with this JJ, my only point here is that I just really cant see anyone reraising a tiny raise to half their stack with AA or KK 1st hand, just doesnt make sense to me!

i owned rick in dis thread

: ))

if u play poker on sense rick u lose

play by stats and what u hav in front of u

i liked this thread
cause
i was right