Playing Live

Hi guys, I've been playing for about 3 years now, mainly online but started live about 2 years ago. Initially live went really well, I made a really good profit in the first 6 months and and I pretty much jacked in playing online. However, recently my live game seems to have gone horribly wrong!

I really can't figure it out but it just feels so different than online when I get involved in a hand. It's difficult to explain what it feels like and the closest I can come up with is that it almost feels surreal, I feel a bit detatched from what is going on around me. Online I feel I can assess a lot better how a hand is being played out but live I don't seem to be able to focus on critical events in a hand. I know I'm not going mad as I've spoken to at least 2 other (good) players and they have said they know exactly what I mean but none of us can work out why.

So.... are me and my mates losing the plot or can someone figure this weirdness out???

Hi swish.

Felt the same as you have before mate and near as I can figure it I put it down to the fact that when playing online the factors are clear and concise.

What I mean is that you are playing only what you can see.

Your hole cards, other players betting patterns, the flop, the pot size etc.

Sometimes I over analyse when playing live and try and read things into players reactions (shifting in seat, scratching nose, coughing, smiling, raised eyebrows etc etc) that just aren't there.

I mentioned on another thread that I want to play more live and I'm sure that after reading this everyone will want to play live with me!

I think the online thing is a bit like a man going blind and all of a sudden his other senses become more heightened. If you are denied the other stimuli then the only ones you have left (watching play on the online table) are heightened.

Don't know if that helps but it's only my theory so feel free to chuck it away.

Live can be a difficult animal to transition to after playing online for a long time, if you are an agressive player at the cyber game it is sometimes difficult to take that same agression when you are face to face with your opponenet. If you simply consider the situation, and think what would I do in this sitution in a big tourney online and just try to emulate that.
I really believe nerves has much to do with the way you feel, some of the best players fall to pieces when they sit live with all of the so called seasoned pros.
Boredom can also be a huge factor as you now have to fill your time with your thoughts and its easy to over anaylise a situation. I recommend taking an ipod and losing yourself in your music while the game is early, take your time to make your decisions, just because everybody is watching you, dont get intimidated, use the time to think the hand through and make your decisions.
Then focus your attention on 1 player at a time, dont try to focus on the entire table in a bid to work out what they are up to, pick the guy to your right and watch him for an entire round, maybe 2, see what he does, how he acts, get a read on his overall demenour and the tempo of his game, then work your way around the table. This helps to tag players and gives you something to use the time effectively and should allow you to feel more involved in the game.

Two of the best players I have seen live are on this forum, firstly Kunkuwap is a master of the live game and is impossible to read, some of the best on the world have tried. Also someone with a little less experience but who is methodical at the tables, has a similar routine whatever he does and never gets flustered is Banksy, will be interesting to get their views.
Good luck at the tables (Nick, phinnies1 not having realised my missus is still logged in!!!)

This is a strange one for me, because it kind of feels the opposite for me.

Playing live I feel like I'm completely on top of the game, and inside everyone's heads. But when i play online after recently playing live, even if its only a couple of tables, i feel really detached from the action, and it takes me a while to get beck into it.

I think it's because live i get really involved in the table chat, and have a laugh with everyone on the table. I stopped chatting so much online when i started playing up to 9 mtts at once, and never really got back into the habit, even with only 1 or 2 tables.

One of the common mistakes people make when they are playing live from what i've seen, is that no matter how loud or quiet they are when they aren't in a hand, as soon as they get a hand they want to play, they go into their own little world and shut up completely. Not only is this a definite tell (The quieter the stronger) but it also means that they miss out on tells from other players on the table whenever they're in a hand.

Just try getting more involved in the table, chatting to people, and as banksy says, watch people carefully.

When i first stat a live game, the first thing i do is chat to the people either side of me, get a feel for who they are, how theyre likely to play, and then focus on watching them for the first few rounds. These are the people you're most likely to play a pot with, as they're in the blinds with you, so it makes sense to start with them anyway. During these first few laps, you'll notice who's playing a lot of hands, and these are the next people i focus on - again logical as you're likely to play a large % of your pots with them as well.

Trying to keep an eye on 9 players at once isn't easy at first, so don't try. Knowing the table dynamics as a whole is most important.

Thanks for the replies guys. Some interesting points to take on board!

Rick - I think you summed it up in the bit where you talk about going into 'your own little world' - that's exactly what it feels like and everything else going on at the table seems distant.

Online I used to chat way too much, have stopped that now and has made a huge difference. Live I rarely chat, I struggle with my confidence and think that is the reason. I also find it hard to play aggressively live whereas online I find it a lot easier. If I am at a quiet table I will be quite chatty and be fairly confident, if I am at a very 'chatty' table I go into quiet mode and become less confident. Reminds me a bit of the adage 'if you're at a table with lots of aggressive players play passive and vice versa' - I seem to apply that to my personality at the table!

Unfortunatley at my local club there is a really good player (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=1103) who has all the verbals great table image and quite intimidating to play against. Somehow I seem to always get drawn on his table! Once he gets going he totally controls the table and this makes it even harder to get into the game.

Was reading an old copy of Poker Player the other day and read an article by Neil Channing, he was saying he sometimes gets the 'detatched' feeling and has to leave the table , re-focus and come back to play. Nice to know even the good players suffer similar problems!

Have just started reading Holden's latest book and there seems to be some good stuff in there to with live play. Anybody else read this book?

Thanks again and best of luck at the tables to you all!

Dave

snip

swishtony wrote:
Unfortunatley at my local club there is a really good player (http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=1103) who has all the verbals great table image and quite intimidating to play against. Somehow I seem to always get drawn on his table! Once he gets going he totally controls the table and this makes it even harder to get into the game

Seems to me you have a guy here who just likes to use his image to intimidate people, I mean you say he is good and sure enough he is a decent player but hardly a world beater, just a few results a year at his local casino.
I find you get there players at every casino in ever tournament, even in a £5 rebuy you find the local who plays every week, knows everyone, is confident and therefore seems intimidation so somebody with little live experience. They chat at the table and appear on the outside to have things under control. It is rarely the case that they are a very good player, I usually give them enough rope to hang themselves and then ask them why they are playing a £5 rebuy at the local casino!
But truth is just play your game, it is much harder face to face to be as agressive as you are online but trust me it works just the same. A good player is not decided by their demenour at the table and how well they spin a story, its about how you play. Dont feel you need to keep up with the Jones's and conduct the game with your mouth, let your chips do the talking.

Some of the best players sit quietly, stay out of trouble, keep under the radar and just play good poker.
My advice, when Mr Bully starts his antics, a few well timed reraises and a couple of sarcastic comments and he will soon be singing to your tune.

swishtony wrote:Hi guys, I've been playing for about 3 years now, mainly online but started live about 2 years ago. Initially live went really well, I made a really good profit in the first 6 months and and I pretty much jacked in playing online. However, recently my live game seems to have gone horribly wrong!

I really can't figure it out but it just feels so different than online when I get involved in a hand. It's difficult to explain what it feels like and the closest I can come up with is that it almost feels surreal, I feel a bit detatched from what is going on around me. Online I feel I can assess a lot better how a hand is being played out but live I don't seem to be able to focus on critical events in a hand. I know I'm not going mad as I've spoken to at least 2 other (good) players and they have said they know exactly what I mean but none of us can work out why.

So.... are me and my mates losing the plot or can someone figure this weirdness out???

Ok m8, you say you have sat with him on many occaisions, so what are his weaknesses???

Every poker player has them, and this guy is not exception...

Study the feker, until you pick up on things, listen to him, interupt his storys..

Best of luck with the live poker, and give as good as you get...

Ive had the same thing, I just put it down to the fact online im faceless and easier to bluff and make moves as they cant see me react. Making any move live is a dif story altogther, so i shy away from it making me just an easy bluff or steel.

Ive assesed it tho and i think its my own lack of confidence that makes it that way, most of the time im against some1 who has not got the experience i have nor the knowledge i have and yet i still fold to their obvious continuation bets and i just sit there getting frustrated. Im not sure of the answer yet and when i am i will let u know, but my thousands of online hands in comparison to my live hands must be a factor.

More live poker is the answer but because its so out of my comfort zone i shy away, gl m8 and i hope u find the answer for u soon.

Hi gem, cheers for that! I played again this week in a small buy in game, took some things on board from the replies here, seemed to help a little!

Read an article yesterday about live play. It said that most people will play live poker similar to their personalities/traits and find it very difficult to play any differently. In other words, quiet person = timid poker, brash = aggressive, confident = aggressive etc. etc. For me to be a successful live player I think I will need to almost take on a different 'persona' seeing I am a fairly quiet sort!

Another point I noticed after giving this topic some thought... when I started playing live it was totally different! I almost couldn't lose - in first 3 months I won about £3k just playing £10 rebuys and the odd £20 freezeout once or twice a week. Not a huge amount of money but I rarely didn't cash! People used to hate having me on their table and I used to get a quite a few compliments about my play. So what happened, where did it all go so wrong??

After that I had an incredibly sick run of outdraws for about 6 months. Could never win a race and whenever I got my chips in ahead would always, without fail, get outdrawn. Rather than just accepting this is part of poker I decided to try and totally change the way I played, a lot more fishy and muppalicious, but it never seemed to work for me. Back to playing my usual game, but just the same old same old, bad beats etc. etc.

When you are running so bad it is easy to look for blame as it seems impossible it can just be down to bad luck, I think I blamed myself and this clearly shattered my confidence, since then I've never really gained the confidence back to be able to play a decent live game.

I think the moral of this 'story' is to stay true to your play, accept the bad runs with the good (do they exist?? lol) and get some bloody self-belief... PMA rules!

Cheers

Dave

I hope this will help m8

KEYWORD........ ATTENTIVE!!

I know this sounds a bit hippy man but...

Instead of trying to take evrything in, let your subconscious take over, relax, watch players out of the corners of your eyes instead of staring in the souls of hell.

I will look up where i read it and repost a more detailed view on it lol, until then... Peace out!!