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Anyone got any links to hi/lo articles/stories/startegies or hand selction charts etc ?
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CARNIVORE04- Posts : 1006
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Bainn- Beardy Mod
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In limit Hi/Lo position is not a big issue but hand selection is all.
Ace Ace Deuce Three DS = boss hand
If you're aiming for the low, get as many players in the pot as you can. Playing for high ? Less opponents the better.
Now go forth and muff.
Ace Ace Deuce Three DS = boss hand
If you're aiming for the low, get as many players in the pot as you can. Playing for high ? Less opponents the better.
Now go forth and muff.
Mumbolungo- Posts : 164
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Once had a look at Omaha Hi/Lo, sorry I cant remember where I got this from and it is a bit long!
While in Omaha Hi-Low the best starting hand is AaAb2a3b, which gives A-2-3 for making a low hand and straights, two suited aces for nut flushes, and a pair of aces for high. The best low starting hand is A-2-3-4, which makes the nut low hand more than 92% of the time when a qualifying low hand is possible and has a better than 50% chance to win at least a portion of the pot at showdown with an 8-high low qualifier, and at least ⅔ of the time will win at least a portion of the pot with a 9-high qualifier.
Contrary to most poker variants, more is not necessarily better (or the same) in Omaha, because only two hole cards are used. Because of this limitation, hands with more than two of the same suit or more than two of the same rank are weaker than the hand would be with exactly two of the suit or rank. The extra cards of the same suit remove outs for the flush draw and the extra cards of the same rank remove valuable outs for three of a kind, a full house, and four of a kind. The suit type aaaa is only about half as likely to make a flush as aabc. Paradoxically, the worst hand in Omaha hold 'em is four of a kind deuces (twos), because this hand can only make a pair of deuces plus the community cards. A much more common poor starting hand has the shape XaYbZcRd with the ranks of the cards spaced, such as 2
6
9
K
—this hand has no flush draw, limited straight possibilities, and no pairs, although it has many more possibilities than 2-2-2-2 and considerably more than 2 2 2 9.
Making a low hand based on low hand shape
Any hand starting with at least two different qualifying low ranks has a chance to make a low hand. The more different low ranks a hand has, the better the chances of making a low hand. Also, the more pairs and trips among the low ranks, the less chance there is of a low hand being possible and not being able to make a low hand.
Making high nuts
In the case of high hands, when the nuts is a royal flush or straight flush, the winning hand is often a flush; when the nuts is four of a kind, the winning hand is often a full house. The lowest hand that can be the nuts is three of a kind, which occurs when there is no straight or flush possible and no pair on the board. The lowest possible nut hand at the river is Q-Q-Q-8-7 which occurs when the board is one of the 600 possible combinations of Q-8-7-3-2 that doesn't have three or more of the same suit.
Notice that while three of a kind is a 60% favorite to be the nuts after the flop, it's less than 2% to still be on top at the river—although the three of a kind has a good chance of improving to a full house or four of a kind, if it doesn't improve, chances are the nut hand at the river is a straight, flush or straight flush. At the river, having the nuts be four of a kind is more likely (45.2%) than all of the hands ranked below four of a kind combined (44.8%). Also, despite the rarity of straight flushes at showdown, 10% of the boards will have one as the nut hand by the river.
Straight flush
A straight flush is possible whenever the board contains at least three cards of the same suit where the ranks of the suited cards can create a straight with the addition of exactly two ranks. For three ranks, the two lower ranks must be chosen from the up to four next lower ranks, counting the rank of ace as low when trying to make the straight A-2-3-4-5. There are 10 possible straights (Ace high to 5 high). A straight is also possible with any three ranks from A to 4, At the turn there are two ways to make a straight flush—there can either be four cards of the same suit with a rank set that allows a straight, or three cards of the same suit that allow a straight combined with any of the 39 cards with a different suit.
Four of a kind
Four of a kind is the nuts whenever there is a pair or three of a kind on the board and no possibility for a straight flush. After the flop, three of a kind is possible by choosing one of the 13 ranks and three of the four cards in that rank; a pair is possible by choosing one of the 13 ranks and two of the four cards in that rank combined with a card in one of the other 12 ranks in any of the four suits.
Full house
Oddly enough, a full house can only be the nuts when there is four of a kind on the board (or if quads are not possible because you hold one of the cards necessary). This means that there is no chance of a full house being the nuts on the flop.
Flush
A flush is the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads) and there are three or more cards of the same suit that do not form a rank set that can make a straight.
Straight
A straight is the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads), the ranks form a rank set that makes a straight possible with the addition of two cards, and no more than two cards share the same suit
Three of a kind
Finally, three of a kind is only the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads), the ranks form a rank set that can't make a straight with the addition of two cards, and no more than two cards share the same suit. As with a straight, the number of combinations is the number of possible rank sets multiplied by the number of allowed suit sets.
In Omaha Hi-Lo, it is often the case that when there is a low hand, the winning hand is the nut low hand. When there are more than two people in the pot at showdown and a low hand is possible, it is not uncommon for two or more players to both have the nut low hand. This makes playing a hand that is only contesting for the low half of the pot risky. For example, if at showdown there are two players in the pot and they each have the nut low hand but different high hands, the player with the better high hand will win 75% of the pot (split the low half and win the high half) and the other player wins just 25% of the pot (called "getting quartered").
Premium Hands
These are the few hands that I will almost certainly raise or re-raise with in the Omaha High-Low games that I play.
Any A23x - This has a good chance to win the low and also a chance at taking the high. You hope to draw to a wheel with this type of hand. Bonus if the ace is suited.
Any Double Suited Aces - With a hand like this I have a good chance of getting a flush draw, or of course there is also the possibility of hitting a set and boating up. Bonus if the hand is coordinated.
Any A2xx With A Suited Ace - I don't generally raise on only an A2 in limit cash games. Most of the time you will only be drawing to a low with a hand like that anyway, so it is not usually profitable to raise it pre-flop. I have found however that it can be quite profitable to raise pre-flop when you have an A2 with the ace also suited. You can flop the powerful 'nut low/nut flush' draw and keep pushing the pot until the river. I have scooped $300 pots in $2/$4 limit Omaha H/L games by doing this.
Those are pretty much all you should be auto-raising with in Omaha High/Low cash games. Tournaments are another story entirely, but I'll get to that another day. I see so many people consistently lose at Omaha by raising pre-flop every time they look down at a marginal hand. I watch them lose their money and cringe, and I can't encourage you enough to please play your hands conservatively and selectively
Quality Hands
These are hands like KsKcJs10c or As3sJc4d. It is not generally profitable to raise with these hands pre-flop, but it is okay once in a while when you are in good position or have a good read on the table. You will generally call almost any bet however and see the flop with these hands.
Pretty much all A2, A3, big pairs in coordinated hands and double suited big cards (queen or higher) fall into this category. Also random hands with low straight possibilities fall into this group, like 2346. Any A2xx or A3xx - You play these for the low, hoping that you also end up with a high as well. If you don't flop two pair, a set, a low draw or nut flush draw you should probably fold on the flop.
Big Pairs (Coordinated) - Big pairs are great as long as the hand is coordinated. This includes 'double pairs', like KsJsKcJh. Big pairs are jacks and above. Big pairs are so much better than smaller pairs because the ideal with a big pair in Omaha is to make the best full house possible when the board pairs (having flopped a set). With a strongly coordinated hand, you are also left the possibility of flopping nut straight draws or strong flush draws.
Coordinated Low Cards With a Deuce - This includes coordinated low pairs like 3c4s2c2h and unpaired hands like 2s3s4c5d. It notably does not include hands without a deuce, as it becomes much more difficult to fight for both the low and the high without one. The ideal here is to flop a set, two pair, straight, straight draw or low draw and end up hitting both hands.
Playable Hands
These are hands that are merely playable. I will usually call a small raise, but generally will not call a raise-capped pot with one of these hands. I generally see the flop with these if it hasn't been raised. I never raise with these hands pre-flop.
Any Big Pair - AA, KK, QQ or JJ. Doesn't matter which or if anything is suited or coordinated, I generally see the flop with these. I will often times throw the hand away if I don't hit a set on the flop.
Any Suited Ace - I like to see hands with suited aces. I will usually fold after the flop unless I flop a nut flush draw, two pair or trips.
Any 23xx - You like to see the flop with a hand like this because you will draw to the nut low if an ace hits the board. You also still have a chance at the high, because remember low hands can play high but high hands can't play low. I usually fold these post-flop if I don't get a nut low draw, straight draw or 2 pair.
Any 4 Low Cards Without a Deuce - Paired or unpaired (5543 or 6543). I like to see flops with these, hoping to make a straight/set and back door a low or vice-versa.
Any Connected or One-Gapped 2 Pair - Ex. 7766 and 9977. It doesn't matter if they are suited. This allows you a chance at flopping a set and a straight draw and other similar possibilities.
With all of those hands that I play, I am probably considered on the loose end of many Omaha High-Low poker players. Scotty Nyugen is known to have said that no hand is playable in Omaha-8 without an ace.
Now I have two more hand categories left to go. These are the hands that you shouldn't play.
Cash Trap Hands
These are the hands that trick you into thinking that they might be playable. You should almost never play hands like this. If you consistently put money into the pot when you have hands like this, you will lose money in the long run.
Middle Connected Hands - Hands like 6789 and 5679 are not playable. The best possible hand that you are usually drawing to is the high end of a straight that gives someone a low. Then again, your other option is to draw at the bottom end of a straight. Either way, you lose. When your best possibilities with a hand both aren't that great, you should probably just fold it before the flop.
Disconnected 2-Pair - Hands like 9933 or 4488. These hands simply aren't worth playing when you work out the probabilities involved as your only hope is to flop a set - due to the 2 in your hand, 3 on the board rule you have no straight possibilities and any flush possibilities will be substandard.
Double Suited Junk - People look down at double suited hands like 6sJs9c2c and limp into the pot all the time. Your probability of scooping the pot with a hand like this is very low so you might as well not even try.
3 Connected Cards & Junk - Hands like KJ92. You want your hands to either give you a chance at both a high and a low or to all be coordinated. You can't take a little from column A and a little from column B.
One Suited Big Card - A single suited queen or king in your hand won't make your rags any better.
Any Middle/Low Pair & Junk - Hands like 2279 or 8894. These hands are pretty much useless due to probability, again.
Junk Hands
These are hands that are simply awful and fairly evidently unplayable. This includes all junk hands, like 469K and three of a kinds like JJJ4 (the only playable 3 of a kind hands in Omaha High/Low include an A2, A3 or suited ace). These are always folded pre-flop unless you're in a blind and can see it for free. Don't even be tempted to call a raise out of the big blind - it isn't worth it.
While in Omaha Hi-Low the best starting hand is AaAb2a3b, which gives A-2-3 for making a low hand and straights, two suited aces for nut flushes, and a pair of aces for high. The best low starting hand is A-2-3-4, which makes the nut low hand more than 92% of the time when a qualifying low hand is possible and has a better than 50% chance to win at least a portion of the pot at showdown with an 8-high low qualifier, and at least ⅔ of the time will win at least a portion of the pot with a 9-high qualifier.
Contrary to most poker variants, more is not necessarily better (or the same) in Omaha, because only two hole cards are used. Because of this limitation, hands with more than two of the same suit or more than two of the same rank are weaker than the hand would be with exactly two of the suit or rank. The extra cards of the same suit remove outs for the flush draw and the extra cards of the same rank remove valuable outs for three of a kind, a full house, and four of a kind. The suit type aaaa is only about half as likely to make a flush as aabc. Paradoxically, the worst hand in Omaha hold 'em is four of a kind deuces (twos), because this hand can only make a pair of deuces plus the community cards. A much more common poor starting hand has the shape XaYbZcRd with the ranks of the cards spaced, such as 2
6 9 K—this hand has no flush draw, limited straight possibilities, and no pairs, although it has many more possibilities than 2-2-2-2 and considerably more than 2 2 2 9.Making a low hand based on low hand shape
Any hand starting with at least two different qualifying low ranks has a chance to make a low hand. The more different low ranks a hand has, the better the chances of making a low hand. Also, the more pairs and trips among the low ranks, the less chance there is of a low hand being possible and not being able to make a low hand.
Making high nuts
In the case of high hands, when the nuts is a royal flush or straight flush, the winning hand is often a flush; when the nuts is four of a kind, the winning hand is often a full house. The lowest hand that can be the nuts is three of a kind, which occurs when there is no straight or flush possible and no pair on the board. The lowest possible nut hand at the river is Q-Q-Q-8-7 which occurs when the board is one of the 600 possible combinations of Q-8-7-3-2 that doesn't have three or more of the same suit.
Notice that while three of a kind is a 60% favorite to be the nuts after the flop, it's less than 2% to still be on top at the river—although the three of a kind has a good chance of improving to a full house or four of a kind, if it doesn't improve, chances are the nut hand at the river is a straight, flush or straight flush. At the river, having the nuts be four of a kind is more likely (45.2%) than all of the hands ranked below four of a kind combined (44.8%). Also, despite the rarity of straight flushes at showdown, 10% of the boards will have one as the nut hand by the river.
Straight flush
A straight flush is possible whenever the board contains at least three cards of the same suit where the ranks of the suited cards can create a straight with the addition of exactly two ranks. For three ranks, the two lower ranks must be chosen from the up to four next lower ranks, counting the rank of ace as low when trying to make the straight A-2-3-4-5. There are 10 possible straights (Ace high to 5 high). A straight is also possible with any three ranks from A to 4, At the turn there are two ways to make a straight flush—there can either be four cards of the same suit with a rank set that allows a straight, or three cards of the same suit that allow a straight combined with any of the 39 cards with a different suit.
Four of a kind
Four of a kind is the nuts whenever there is a pair or three of a kind on the board and no possibility for a straight flush. After the flop, three of a kind is possible by choosing one of the 13 ranks and three of the four cards in that rank; a pair is possible by choosing one of the 13 ranks and two of the four cards in that rank combined with a card in one of the other 12 ranks in any of the four suits.
Full house
Oddly enough, a full house can only be the nuts when there is four of a kind on the board (or if quads are not possible because you hold one of the cards necessary). This means that there is no chance of a full house being the nuts on the flop.
Flush
A flush is the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads) and there are three or more cards of the same suit that do not form a rank set that can make a straight.
Straight
A straight is the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads), the ranks form a rank set that makes a straight possible with the addition of two cards, and no more than two cards share the same suit
Three of a kind
Finally, three of a kind is only the nuts when no two cards share the same rank (no pairs, trips or quads), the ranks form a rank set that can't make a straight with the addition of two cards, and no more than two cards share the same suit. As with a straight, the number of combinations is the number of possible rank sets multiplied by the number of allowed suit sets.
In Omaha Hi-Lo, it is often the case that when there is a low hand, the winning hand is the nut low hand. When there are more than two people in the pot at showdown and a low hand is possible, it is not uncommon for two or more players to both have the nut low hand. This makes playing a hand that is only contesting for the low half of the pot risky. For example, if at showdown there are two players in the pot and they each have the nut low hand but different high hands, the player with the better high hand will win 75% of the pot (split the low half and win the high half) and the other player wins just 25% of the pot (called "getting quartered").
Premium Hands
These are the few hands that I will almost certainly raise or re-raise with in the Omaha High-Low games that I play.
Any A23x - This has a good chance to win the low and also a chance at taking the high. You hope to draw to a wheel with this type of hand. Bonus if the ace is suited.
Any Double Suited Aces - With a hand like this I have a good chance of getting a flush draw, or of course there is also the possibility of hitting a set and boating up. Bonus if the hand is coordinated.
Any A2xx With A Suited Ace - I don't generally raise on only an A2 in limit cash games. Most of the time you will only be drawing to a low with a hand like that anyway, so it is not usually profitable to raise it pre-flop. I have found however that it can be quite profitable to raise pre-flop when you have an A2 with the ace also suited. You can flop the powerful 'nut low/nut flush' draw and keep pushing the pot until the river. I have scooped $300 pots in $2/$4 limit Omaha H/L games by doing this.
Those are pretty much all you should be auto-raising with in Omaha High/Low cash games. Tournaments are another story entirely, but I'll get to that another day. I see so many people consistently lose at Omaha by raising pre-flop every time they look down at a marginal hand. I watch them lose their money and cringe, and I can't encourage you enough to please play your hands conservatively and selectively
Quality Hands
These are hands like KsKcJs10c or As3sJc4d. It is not generally profitable to raise with these hands pre-flop, but it is okay once in a while when you are in good position or have a good read on the table. You will generally call almost any bet however and see the flop with these hands.
Pretty much all A2, A3, big pairs in coordinated hands and double suited big cards (queen or higher) fall into this category. Also random hands with low straight possibilities fall into this group, like 2346. Any A2xx or A3xx - You play these for the low, hoping that you also end up with a high as well. If you don't flop two pair, a set, a low draw or nut flush draw you should probably fold on the flop.
Big Pairs (Coordinated) - Big pairs are great as long as the hand is coordinated. This includes 'double pairs', like KsJsKcJh. Big pairs are jacks and above. Big pairs are so much better than smaller pairs because the ideal with a big pair in Omaha is to make the best full house possible when the board pairs (having flopped a set). With a strongly coordinated hand, you are also left the possibility of flopping nut straight draws or strong flush draws.
Coordinated Low Cards With a Deuce - This includes coordinated low pairs like 3c4s2c2h and unpaired hands like 2s3s4c5d. It notably does not include hands without a deuce, as it becomes much more difficult to fight for both the low and the high without one. The ideal here is to flop a set, two pair, straight, straight draw or low draw and end up hitting both hands.
Playable Hands
These are hands that are merely playable. I will usually call a small raise, but generally will not call a raise-capped pot with one of these hands. I generally see the flop with these if it hasn't been raised. I never raise with these hands pre-flop.
Any Big Pair - AA, KK, QQ or JJ. Doesn't matter which or if anything is suited or coordinated, I generally see the flop with these. I will often times throw the hand away if I don't hit a set on the flop.
Any Suited Ace - I like to see hands with suited aces. I will usually fold after the flop unless I flop a nut flush draw, two pair or trips.
Any 23xx - You like to see the flop with a hand like this because you will draw to the nut low if an ace hits the board. You also still have a chance at the high, because remember low hands can play high but high hands can't play low. I usually fold these post-flop if I don't get a nut low draw, straight draw or 2 pair.
Any 4 Low Cards Without a Deuce - Paired or unpaired (5543 or 6543). I like to see flops with these, hoping to make a straight/set and back door a low or vice-versa.
Any Connected or One-Gapped 2 Pair - Ex. 7766 and 9977. It doesn't matter if they are suited. This allows you a chance at flopping a set and a straight draw and other similar possibilities.
With all of those hands that I play, I am probably considered on the loose end of many Omaha High-Low poker players. Scotty Nyugen is known to have said that no hand is playable in Omaha-8 without an ace.
Now I have two more hand categories left to go. These are the hands that you shouldn't play.
Cash Trap Hands
These are the hands that trick you into thinking that they might be playable. You should almost never play hands like this. If you consistently put money into the pot when you have hands like this, you will lose money in the long run.
Middle Connected Hands - Hands like 6789 and 5679 are not playable. The best possible hand that you are usually drawing to is the high end of a straight that gives someone a low. Then again, your other option is to draw at the bottom end of a straight. Either way, you lose. When your best possibilities with a hand both aren't that great, you should probably just fold it before the flop.
Disconnected 2-Pair - Hands like 9933 or 4488. These hands simply aren't worth playing when you work out the probabilities involved as your only hope is to flop a set - due to the 2 in your hand, 3 on the board rule you have no straight possibilities and any flush possibilities will be substandard.
Double Suited Junk - People look down at double suited hands like 6sJs9c2c and limp into the pot all the time. Your probability of scooping the pot with a hand like this is very low so you might as well not even try.
3 Connected Cards & Junk - Hands like KJ92. You want your hands to either give you a chance at both a high and a low or to all be coordinated. You can't take a little from column A and a little from column B.
One Suited Big Card - A single suited queen or king in your hand won't make your rags any better.
Any Middle/Low Pair & Junk - Hands like 2279 or 8894. These hands are pretty much useless due to probability, again.
Junk Hands
These are hands that are simply awful and fairly evidently unplayable. This includes all junk hands, like 469K and three of a kinds like JJJ4 (the only playable 3 of a kind hands in Omaha High/Low include an A2, A3 or suited ace). These are always folded pre-flop unless you're in a blind and can see it for free. Don't even be tempted to call a raise out of the big blind - it isn't worth it.
Bainn- Beardy Mod
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What does "Succinct" mean ?
Mumbolungo- Posts : 164
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No idea what "Succinct" means suggest you just get to the point.
Is it kinda like "Succeed" which my toothless budgie does?
Is it kinda like "Succeed" which my toothless budgie does?
Bainn- Beardy Mod
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Mumbolungo wrote:No idea what "Succinct" means suggest you just get to the point.
Is it kinda like "Succeed" which my toothless budgie does?
Sigh.
wildrick- SharkPokerSchool Mentor
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nice article mumbo, tx for posting it 
Evo397bhp- Posts : 667
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CARNIVORE04 wrote:Anyone got any links to hi/lo articles/stories/startegies or hand selction charts etc ?
would recommend the following books to read
1) Low Limit Omaha High-Low Strategies by Bill Boston
mainly a cash game book but will give a good insight and base to work from
2)Omaha High-Low: Play to Win With The Odds by Bill Boston
This book mainly deals with all 5278 starting hands there ranking value and there expected EV, so get S/H as realy just a big list !!
Also something that is maths based on drawing probability, as you will get out draw a lot so knowing the odd's helps to make choices and accept the beats as good or bad odd's giving you a insight into other players skill level... WARNING bellow $50 buy-in tourneys there is little in the way of skill in most of the field so now critical to get it right on ya draws.
good book although Holdem based is
Odds and Probabilities by Matthew Hilger
CARNIVORE04- Posts : 1006
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Cheers lads its a good start but keep em coming.
Need input need input
Need input need input
wildrick- SharkPokerSchool Mentor
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Not sure if you've looked at the ones on the main site... but here are the links anyway!
Omaha
Omaha hilo
Omaha
Omaha hilo
Bainn- Beardy Mod
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Join date : 2009-07-02
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Oh, and don't mess around with middle cards.
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