Hand opinion plz...

I really need to look at where im going wrong in these situations.

My read on the player is very loose, limpin in with Kx etc etc. He has made very weak bets before trying to draw out on people and the small bets are never trapping, not for this player anyway!!

My problem is the other player involved makes this a bigger pot than i wanted and with the call i make on the river, am i right to say that i have good odds to call here and pick off a bluff??

Could i have raised smaller on the flop??

Should i have checked the turn for pot control and risk giving a free card or do i bet as much as i did??

Could i have bet smaller without giving the opponents the odds to call?

http://www.pokerhand.org/?4289951

Any suggestions would be helpful cheers!!
p.s be as honest as you wish, i sometimes need a good kicking!!

ok... the way you played the hand you have to call the river. However...

I dont like the raise preflop - you have a reasonable hand in good position, and if it oflds to you im raising here 100%. But after 2 limpers, I'm quite happy to limp behind and take a flop here.

On the flop - having raised pre a C bet is good as its virtually checked to you. With no hand and no draw here, you could just slow down completely and call for 5c or fold. But the aggressive play is better i think. Youve kept it quite cheap tho and bet half pot, id of bet slightly more if i was going to bet at all, mbe 3/4 pot.

On the turn - theres almost $3 in the pot, and you have $4 behind and top pair. If you bet $2 here, you have to call a reraise, and you have to call $2 on river. So $2 commits you. Since you're committing yourself on a dangerous looking board I'd much prefer a shove for $4, committing yourself just the same, but possibly pricing out some draws. You could happily just check behind tho, knowing youve improved a lot, but could easily be miles behind and drawing dead. So either check or shove, but dont price in draws and commit at same time.

The problem is, at this low level, the $4 shove probably doesnt price out the draws, you get called by anyone who has a piece of a draw. Id still be happier trying it tho than pricing everyone in with $2.

If you limp pre, you have no need to bet the flop or even call a bet. You lose a limp if someone bets the flop. If they check you possibly lose a little more with the Q, but you arent priced in so much on the river probably, and get away easily.

So limp pre, and look to hit or dump. Once you raise pre, youre building a pot, and its much harder to get away from. If you make the raise pre and get one caller then great, C bet away, but against 2 oppos its not always so great, and once youve been called you need to think you might be drawing very dead once the Q hits on river (10 J or 2 pr is very possible here)

Thanks Rick

Question....

With regards to having these fish on my right, should i be just isolating 1 limper max with QKs??

with being in position and not wanting the remaining few to make it a limpfest i thought i was making the right play here.

With both limpers calling in future, (should this same situation occur) then my best option is to hit hard or fold, would that be a correct approach??

I think i have to take this squarley on the chin and accept that i have played a marginal hand here and my post flop skills were not good enough. Another lesson learnt though, much appreciated!!

tbh, theyre fish, i dont want to isolate, I just want them all in the pot when I hit. Im only isolating one or two limpers if I have a good chance of being ahead. you say he limps Kx, but he obv limps Ax as well, and mbe some small pairs. Its not that the raise is awful, it's just that you'll have better hands and better oppurtunites.

If you really want to raise here, id be making sure to raise enough to have a chance of taking the pot there, or only getting one caller. If you raise the pot, and get one other caller, then both of the limpers are getting at least 4-1, and are never folding so cheaply. So you're effectively playing a multiway pot with a speculative hand - if youre doing this make it as cheap as possible and limp.

nearly forgot...

this is a hand you actually want to play!

If you raise and get reraised you cant call, so youve missed the chance of a flop with a nice hand. if you limp and get raised you can still peal off a cheapish flop.

Id be much happier with raising 46 sooted here, where there arent so many great flops. And your hand is disguised - if it flops a low raggy flop hurrah lol.

Plenty to think about there, thanks rick!!

big raise preflop in position with strong hand against calling stations = 100% correct.

2 callers, min bet and you continue show of strength by decent 3/4 pot size right = 90% + correct. Sometimes should flat but for the most part this is spot on correct.

Turn the nuts....you must continue to bet for both value and not to give free cards and charge them for being stupid and calling with any 2.

River you get bet into $2. you have to cal $2 to win around $7 or $8 i think...he makes it very easy for you to just call. however, if he has been doing this on more than 3 occasions where he bets out of a pattern on river when draw has come in 1/3 to 1./4 of pot and has it then you shuold fold here.

However i think river decision is again 90% + correct.

Overall you played the hand pretty perfect.

well done and unlucky on result.

oh best to mention...

when i say you turn the nuts i mean top pair, nearly top kicker v calling stations = huge hand.

i don't actually meant the ACTUAL nuts obviously!!

gl

i think preflop you could argue it either way, but im still not happy about the turn bet if you do raise pre. Its achieving nothing, yet still committing you to the hand - there is no way youre not putting youre other $2 in, so you may as well put them all on turn, where some draws fold possibly. Nobody is calling 2 but folding 4 unless they have a draw - ie a worse Q still calls the 4 and u get paid, if they were going to call the 2.

Preflop depends on your style, and definitely works better at a higher level, but turn is achieving nothing except to commit yourself. imho

Thanks guys for your response, having 2 different views is great to see (not being sarcastic lol)

I have lots to learn and maybe thinking a bit more about getting committed to a pot whilst in play is a big heads up here.

I suppose im just trying to find out that im doing the right thing by charging these calling stations to hit their hands.

If i get called on a turn bet where the pot means no matter what i bet im all in then im right to shove yes??

once you have commited to the preflop raise i dont think you could have played it much different other than pushing allin post flop when you missed.
your 65c bet post flop gives both opponents odds to call you and you dont want the call if you have missed the lot.
but to be honest the K-10 hearts would have gone with you anyway.
i wouldve limped pre, you have position in this hand.
it doesnt commit your stack, if you hit, then push it, if you miss its cost you 5c.

I read this in one of his blogs, would you agree this is the same kind of scenario i was in??

Karl Mahrenholz


Say you have raised with a pair of aces and the passive player calls. On a dangerous looking flop of Jh 8h 6c you know that this player will like to call you down with any variety of combinations of 1 pair and/or straight and flush draws. It is therefore your task to ensure that he pays the wrong price to make these calls. The larger the bets he will call, the bigger the mistake he will be making. Depending on the vulnerability of your hand in connection with the texture of the flop, if your opponent calls your flop bet and you are confident enough in your read that you are still ahead on the turn you may consider overbetting all in on the turn to shut the hand down completely. Again this will depend on the stack sizes relative to the pot but will force your opponent to pay the ultimate price if he still wishes to continue

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lol is it getting a bit too deep??

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Well unless you wanna give me a starting BR i have to start here im afraid lol.

Have done it before through SNG route on full tilt from the freerolls but im challenging myself on the cash games!!

Does my head in sometimes cos' i have done well and really shouldnt be playing these levels but circumstances demand it im afraid!!

no need to defend it traps - no point learning by losing lots, beat one level and move up when you can. I know so many people who dont play anymore cos they went too high too fast and blew out.

most sites drop their rake for these very low games, meaning they actually present better value than a couple of levels higher.

I see a challenge coming on... trapsetter vs overated $20 to grind for a few days... winner gets the ol' bragging rights

definitely, the grind fest challenge is on...

overrated, traps... are you up for it?

:pale:

Feel all of those things all rolled into 1

It would definately be an incentive for me to keep focused!!

If overated wants to have a crack at it i dont mind!!

I will try my best and all that!!

I start monday!!!
im sure i dont feel any pressure at all....

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hmmm, is it just me or has overated bottled this one?