How badly did I play this hand?

* Hand # 3187832181 starting - 2010-03-05 00:21:56
** 2010 €300 GTD Limited Rebuy[3372865]:Table 6 [Multi Table Hold'em] (600|1,200 NL - MTT) Real Money

windows002 sitting in seat 1 with 17028.75
theredcat1 sitting in seat 2 with 23700.00
Muffwitz sitting in seat 3 with 37552.50
T1NT1N70 sitting in seat 4 with 9670.50
carrotkid sitting in seat 6 with 7450.00
Pete2504 sitting in seat 7 with 51315.00[Dealer]
dodester sitting in seat 8 with 50520.00
pawnbroker sitting in seat 9 with 77898.75
blanchwoods sitting in seat 10 with 4880.00
dodester ante'd - 60.00
pawnbroker ante'd - 60.00
blanchwoods ante'd - 60.00
windows002 ante'd - 60.00
theredcat1 ante'd - 60.00
Muffwitz ante'd - 60.00
T1NT1N70 ante'd - 60.00
carrotkid ante'd - 60.00
Pete2504 ante'd - 60.00
dodester posted the small blind - 300.00
pawnbroker posted the big blind - 600.00

** Dealing cards to Pete2504: ,
blanchwoods folded
windows002 folded
theredcat1 folded
Muffwitz called - 600.00
T1NT1N70 folded
carrotkid folded
Pete2504 called - 600.00
dodester called - 600.00
pawnbroker checked

** Dealing the flop: , ,
dodester checked
pawnbroker bet - 600.00
Muffwitz called - 600.00
Pete2504 raised to 1800.00
dodester folded
pawnbroker folded
Muffwitz raised to 3000.00
Pete2504 called - 3000.00

** Dealing the turn:
Muffwitz bet - 600.00
Pete2504 raised to 6000.00
Muffwitz went all-in - 33292.50
Pete2504 called - 33892.50
Muffwitz shows: ,

** Dealing the river:
Muffwitz wins 77325.00 from the main pot

I think you did extremely well to get the other person's chips all in. Unfortunately for you, on this occasion, you didn't want that and you hit a cooler. Pick yourself up, move on, safe in the knowledge that on this occasion you did nothing wrong and just got some terrible bad luck.

Some may say that they'd fold the A7 preflop. I don't mind this either but with your chips, the blinds at that level, I'd have raised 3 x or mayhap I'd have flat called just like you did. It happens, move on.

Think if im playing this i'd have to make him define his hand a bit better. not that hes limped too fold with the 8's. If i didn't know who i was playing.

But ive met muffwitz before at the tables the guy likes to min bet then call hands that aren't monsters but are likely infront.

Hi Pete,I can,t say you played anything at all wrong you flop set v my house and have leading kicker,turn bet was high but your trying to draw me off pot which is understandable....can,t really say much more apart from vul keep plugging away..........if I played that way v rick I feel he may have spotted my limp pre river bet which in hindsight was the bet that broke the camels back.
That bet I knew was either a big raise on nothing or indeed a raise on the set which I was confident of achieving,vvul setup tho Pete mate respect.

Muffer wrote:Hi Pete,I can,t say you played anything at all wrong you flop set v my house and have leading kicker,turn bet was high but your trying to draw me off pot which is understandable....can,t really say much more apart from vul keep plugging away..........if I played that way v rick I feel he may have spotted my limp pre river bet which in hindsight was the bet that broke the camels back.
That bet I knew was either a big raise on nothing or indeed a raise on the set which I was confident of achieving,vvul setup tho Pete mate respect.

where kingrattler?

god knows m8ty aint seen im in ages ......

well its pretty much a setup... the only part thats bothering me is that you were both pretty deep stacked.

Preflop - nothing wrong with a limp or raise with A7 sooooted on the button with your stack or 80+ bbs.

Flop - bet and a call, you reraise, nothing wrong with that obv. You get min reraised tho, and at this point you cant fold, but id be proceeding with caution.

This minimum reraise could be a number of things, from a complete bluff to an absolute monster.

Oppo is unlikely to limp AA KK or QQ in late pos after a limper. They are also fairly unlikely to limp a hand with a 7 in - particularly since you know 3 of them are out. This leaves sketchy aces that they dont want to raise, like A10 AJ etc, small and medium pairs, and random connectors like 10J suited etc.

So we can narrow oppos range a bit more now, to

a) A bluff with something that has completely missed
b) A draw, or big combo draw, with say 9 10dd AJdd etc - however this is a very odd way to play it, risking getting 5bet off the pot, when you could take the cheap turn.
c) A pocket pair - again slightly odd, most players would be worried about the draws and 7s, and either flat call, or reraise a lot more.
d) Monster like 88 or 78 A7 K7 etc; pretty damn unlikely

Turn - here it gets really tricky, oppo makes a min bet.

This fits with pretty much all of the options above. a) might be betting weak to see if you just flat, with the intention of a bigger bet on river, b and c might be looking for a cheap river, and d is trying to induce a reraise by acting weak.

Now although initially it looks like a definite spot for a reraise, what hands that we are beating will call it? Oppo has acted very strong on the flop, and is unlikely to think youre bluffing, so most of his bluffs go in the bin, along with a lot of his drawing hands. Most pps probably hit the muck at this point, with the exception of 88 upwards.

So you only get paid off by reraising here if oppo has 99 1010 JJ mbe, or something involving the last 7. 1010 and JJ are hard to fit into his preflop play, so it leaves a very thin line of hands that pay you off.

Given the oppos preflop play, and scary flop min reraise, i'd think he either had me beat with 88 or 87, or he's bluffing, or slight chance he has 97-K7.

Given all this, I'm not saying it's a bad reraise on the turn, but I would prefer the line of flat calling, working on the theory that if he is bluffing I might get another bet out of him on river.

The reraise is so rarely profitable here, even with such a massive hand, that I'd try and slow play it a bit more.

As it is the river comes down, he bets and you stack off anyway, regardless.

But look at the other options... If he has the other 7, he prob stacks anyway on the river, and if he has nothing at all, you might get extra chips out of him.

So when youre losing, you lose either way, when youre ahead and he's very strong you prob stack either way, but when he has nothing at all, you get more chips by flat calling.

The only time the flat call isnt more profitable than the reraise is when oppo has diam/str8 draw, or big pp - both of which are very unlikely and dont really fit with oppos actions too well.

Anyway, I almost defintely stack off in this hand as well, but I would of played it slightly differently to maximise my winnings in other cases.

Moderately.

Raise or fold pre.

To be fair Rick with 30secs and 6games on at one time we can all say we could have played the 88 slightly more chipwise to gain maximum..............I gathered at the time the min bet would make him overplay his set and got the reraise on turn I wanted,the allin was a overbet made to look thatway aswell..........as if drawing,was correct in thinking hes on set and got what I hoped to get.