Can I get away from this?

The guy I am in the hand with was involved in a lot of pots and played some fairly loose hands.

Anyone do anything differently here?



* Hand # 2457280198 starting - 2009-03-02 23:28:27
** $2,500 GTD $5 NLHE 2nd Chance PLUS[2736542]:Table 8 [Multi Table Hold 'em] (1000.00|2000.00 NL - MTT) Real Money

irekop83 sitting in seat 1 with 19697.50
swish_tony sitting in seat 3 with 8565.00[Dealer]
derrick1961 sitting in seat 4 with 10050.00
hustler003 sitting in seat 5 with 37772.50
TonyAlmeida sitting in seat 6 with 51205.25
Telsen sitting in seat 7 with 31475.00
manjbharaj sitting in seat 8 with 10107.50
Matt50 sitting in seat 9 with 13136.25
devilgreek sitting in seat 10 with 70193.50
derrick1961 ante'd - 75.00
hustler003 ante'd - 75.00
TonyAlmeida ante'd - 75.00
Telsen ante'd - 75.00
manjbharaj ante'd - 75.00
Matt50 ante'd - 75.00
devilgreek ante'd - 75.00
irekop83 ante'd - 75.00
swish_tony ante'd - 75.00
derrick1961 posted the small blind - 500.00
hustler003 posted the big blind - 1000.00

** Dealing cards to Telsen: ,
TonyAlmeida folded
Telsen raised to 2000.00
manjbharaj folded
TonyAlmeida > ouch. harsh. hard luck
Matt50 folded
devilgreek called - 2000.00
irekop83 folded
swish_tony folded
derrick1961 folded
hustler003 called - 2000.00

** Dealing the flop: , ,
hustler003 checked
Telsen bet - 7175.00
devilgreek called - 7175.00
TonyAlmeida > wp
hustler003 folded

** Dealing the turn:
Telsen went all-in - 22225.00
devilgreek called - 22225.00
devilgreek shows: ,

** Dealing the river:
devilgreek wins 65975.00 from the main pot

Incidently, this guy ended up going out in 27th place after donking away an uber stack! Only 9 places after me!!

Hmmm.... I think you coulda waited for a better spot, I noticed there was a couple of real fish on the table, one guy in particualr stands out for me. The guy sitting in seat 3

Tough one for me to get away from, had he been the aggressor in the hand it may have been slightly easier but I think that hand has to just be put down to bad luck and bad timing.

The guy was a total donk and had been getting involved with all sorts of hands, as you say... he went from massive chippie with 31 left and went out 26th I think it was.

Ul IMO, although i'd have been more inclined to do it because the "HiJac" seat flatted than the fact a loose player min raised.

If the hijac had not called, then 100% of the time i'd have shoved due to ante and blind costs comp my stack, but with chippy in hijac flat calling loose, i'd see very "if any" chance of him folding for 7kish re-raise, the loose player will see this as a good +ev hand due to the large stack will call for 7k, so all in all you end up over stacking your re-raise, and you have to ask yourself "why is the table chippy getting involved ?, is he as loose as you think ?, is he just trying to see a flop cheap with pos ?, is he looking to trap with the line of you shoving almost any connection to the flop and he's going to come over the top to any bet on the flop ? or is he on the beer ?.

All in all I think a fold with hijac in the hand, a fold was the only move IMO

But then again I do tend to over think some games and players...............

just a cooler tbh

you played it fine tho

ul

Evo397bhp wrote:Ul IMO, although i'd have been more inclined to do it because the "HiJac" seat flatted than the fact a loose player min raised.

If the hijac had not called, then 100% of the time i'd have shoved due to ante and blind costs comp my stack, but with chippy in hijac flat calling loose, i'd see very "if any" chance of him folding for 7kish re-raise, the loose player will see this as a good +ev hand due to the large stack will call for 7k, so all in all you end up over stacking your re-raise, and you have to ask yourself "why is the table chippy getting involved ?, is he as loose as you think ?, is he just trying to see a flop cheap with pos ?, is he looking to trap with the line of you shoving almost any connection to the flop and he's going to come over the top to any bet on the flop ? or is he on the beer ?.

All in all I think a fold with hijac in the hand, a fold was the only move IMO

But then again I do tend to over think some games and players...............

You say a fold was the only move, but would you point out at which point in the hand I should fold?

I may be wrong but I don't think there is much I did wrong. Possibly I could lump in with a bigger bet pre flop, but the way he had been playing there is no way he was folding AJ suited pre.

So even with bigger pre flop bet it ends up HU between us and I am even more pot comitted than in the actual scenario. Add to that I flop top trips and it becomes more likely everything goes in on the flop with the same outcome. Even with him floppin the nuts I still have 7 outs to boat up and win the pot!

Cheers Overated btw.

Sometimes we just like to hear that we did the right thing!

As you say a cooler is the way I look at it. Not the biggest MTT I grant you but still worth a spit in the sink when you have spent 3+ hours playing solid poker and end up with a pat on the back.

if i was you in the same position, i would be the person posting the thread. I dont think you did much wrong, might have raised a bit more preflop but the same scenario would have happened.
Shame you didnt boat up on the river to take down a huge pot. Hope you put some notes against the villain!

ok, first up, i dont really understand what evo is saying either lol.

Right, the hand...

I'm not particularly keen on a min raise with 99 in 2nd pos on a full table, but it's not by any means bad. You're not really encouraging anything to fold that would of called for 1000, so not really narrowing the field, so you may as well limp, or if you want to raise, raise slightly more, around 2.5-3k. I dont think this makes any difference in this case, but worth mentioning.

I like the bet on the flop, tho it is perhaps a little large, on such a dangerous board. you dont want to give a free cad, but 5-6k does the same job as 7.6k.

Having made this large bet tho, we gain some valuable information. Anyone who just calls this bet probably doesn't have an overpair to the board with a spade, as they probably push flat all in. They probably dont have a bare ace of spades, as they probably push all in. They probably dont have a lower set, either, same reason. So what do they flat call with? Well apart from the made flush, they may have one spade above the board, or J10 possibly.

This flat call tho to me is very worrying. As stated, theres plenty of things they shove oveer the top of your bet with, and I'd obviously be calling a shove on the flop. But just flat calling a large bet is very suspicious to me. If you bet smaller and they call, then they may not be so strong, but with this size of bet Im instantly suspicious.

After i've been flat called, i'm trying to keep the pot small in case they have flopped a flush, as this is the most likely hand for them to flat call with. Obviously you may lose some value if the river doesnt pair and he doesnt have flush, and occasionally the river will bring a 4th spade to make him a one card flush, but a lot of the time he's going to have the flush already. I check or small bet the turn, and the same on the river.

Obviously it's still going to be very hard to fold to his bet on the turn or river, and you will very likely still go broke, but it gives you a slight chance to get away.

To be honest however you play the hand youre almost certainly going out, and its just a cooler, ulm8. Nothing wrong with the way you played it, and I prob still go broke in the hand, but I dont like the shove on turn, when only the made flush can call.

Sorry i was as clear as mud yesterday,

my point was

Against a loose large stack player who has position on you, my opening range needs to be more than poc 9's when I'm not short stacked, so the fold would have been pre flop, a very tight line I know but UTG+1 i need more or a very tight table behind me as there are to many Broadway card combos that Tony (being the shortie shove with) and the loose player will call with, so pre flop i don't see to much strength in my hand post flop unless I connect with 1 of my 2 9's left in the deck..


Once in the hand, with the flop that dropped, a 7k bet was not going to push him off a made or draw flush and if it had been an equal stack like the BB in the hand with me, I'd have shoved the flop, but with the loose chippy in there I'd be looking to check/call if he min bet or Check/fold if he come in for anything else all the way to the river, i'd want show down here for no more investment on my part really.

A very tight line I know, but the amount of top sets I've had crushed on made flop boards make me suspicious when I have a loose player with position on me.

I DON'T think you played the hand wrong what so ever post flop, but your opening post said "Anyone do anything differently here?" and yes I would have but that does not make me right.

Very unlucky

wildrick wrote:ok, first up, i dont really understand what evo is saying either lol.

you never do mate, but then neither do I at times

I hear what yer sayin m8, but this guy had massive chip stack and and had been callin and raisin with a wide range of hands previously. The shove on the turn for me was to either take the pot down when he breaks off his chase for the 4 board flush or hope he goes for the flush and misses on the riv. Didn't put him on stone cold nuts when flop came but I still had boat chances and it was stage of mtt where if I take that pot down I am in great po for run in to FT.

Concensus would appear to be it was a cooler and ul. I can live with that! Txs guys for the input. Gl at tables everyone.

The hand as i see it is very simple.

blinds 500-1000 + 75 ante. Pot = 2250

You have 30k stack, player in question has 70k stack i guess avg is around 20k. 30k stack is lovely. You are UTG in a 10 handed table with an above avg starting hand, standard opening raise is approx 3-3.5k

interestingly enough 99 is the average best hand dealt in a 10 handed table...keep that in mind!

When you flop top set on a monotone board 3 handed in MTT, low buyin, with around 13M its super standard. If at any point you consider folding your hand you are making a huge mistake long term. The amount of times you are ahead compard to the amoutn of times you will make the right fold will never make up for the times you wrongly fold, plus you have decent equity even if they have flopped the flush which is pretty rare.

Standard hand, just ul.

Cheers John. Nice reply succinctly put mate. I'm going to sound like a total donk but what do you mean by 13M?

13M is saying you have 13 laps worth of chips - sb+bb+10a=2250 30k/2250 = 13ish

Cheers m8.

Khenny --> insta purchase harrington on holdem v 1

if you don't know what M means you MUST read that book, although slightly outdated by the fact that lots of top players have readjusted due to this book, it is still amazing and imo best poker book out there.

I think you can find it in the study section of SPS.

......

http://www.sharkpokerschool.com/the-study/poker-book-reviews/harrington-v1/

wise words indeed kunk, good job someones awake round here...