$10 MTT Final Table

Hi there,

Really appreciate the responses in the last thread on my $15 MTT hand - so I thought I would go crazy and post another one then reply to the other post after.

This hand is from earlier today on a $10 MTT final table..the play is as follows:

Details:

• Table is quite loose
  
• Lots of preflop betting/raising/all-ins (and showdowns)
  
• Stacks are all around 20-50k apart from me and Player 5 who both have ~100k

[*] I haven't played a hand yet on this table

6 Players Left - 400 antes

Player 1: Fold
Player 2: Fold
Player 3: Fold
Player 4: Fold
Player 5 SB 2000: Call 2000
Me (hopelesglory) bb 4000: Check ( )

Pot 10400

flop


Player 5: Bet 10400
Me (hopelesglory): Raise 97964.12 (All in)
Player 5: Call 87564.12 (All in bar a few hundred)

Player 5 shows and it holds so I can go out in 6th for $150 (payouts were approx 950, 550, 350, 250, 200, 150)

I thought there was a good chance he would fold any queen, 6 or 3 and if he had a monster hand he would have slow played - e.g. 333 or 666 or q6 (he may also have bet these out as their was a flush/straight draw on the board).
If he did call however, then I would have a lot of outs to strong hands: flush/straight - i was 51% after his call according to odds calculator on Will Hill!

Unfortunately though I lost the hand and went out of the tournament - and I wonder whether this was an unnecessary risk, to play for 4 hours then risk it all on a 50/50! (i.e. I could have called and then folded to a raise on the turn, or even re-raised a turn bet, or bet pre flop?) or a great play that wasn't rewarded.

I'm always weary about getting in pots with other big stacks also, however for some reason i didn't consider it this time.

Any comments appreciated! I rarely get any feedback on my games because I play on my own, so like I said before don't be scared to be critical

Many thanks,

Steve

Now that is unlucky m8y im with you on the shove this time.

I don't think you did anything wrong in this hand to be honest. You've flopped a str8 flush draw, you're never folding it and to increase your odds further you're pushing to put any bluff off, put a guy with a lose hand off, etc. I think you just pick yourself up and move on.

The only way I'd play this differently is if the money jumps were huge and the top 3 was severely biased (like free packages etc).

Hmm this is a easy hand to comment on post play knowing the SB cards but..........

Taking a few steps back, he leads for a pot bet in a BB v SB hand on the FT 6 handed with the other big stack involved and you shove to his bet.

We can reason your bet because you have told us your hand, but to the SB this looks (what it is) as a defense with either a drawing str/flush hand or a hit low pair.

With the stacks involved I would 80% of the time smooth call here as your hand has great deceptive value and re think/ evaluate on the turn.

His call for all but his tourney life with so little invested is odd but it is a cheap game and he could well be a weak player who has got lucky so far and does not think the same way as your self, so all he can see is QQ, or a skilled player who see's your bet as a draw because why else would you try to push him out of a pot ?

All in all, while i can reason with your shove seeing your hand, playing blind and in the SB pos then i'd lean towards calling your shove as the pos stack wise i'd be in if the Q's held would be solid to take the tourney down being 4:1 v the rest of the field, if missed then I have a return for the game and move on.

So the question you should really be asking is: Does my play look weak to the SB, and sorry yes it does.

This does not mean you played it wrong like i say, it's how the SB see's it.

V ul to miss the outs by the way.

Hi there m8. First thing that smacks me in face is you say in the details when setting the scene that the table is loose! If that's the case then why did you expect him to fold any Q?

No more analysis needed other than to say if he is in fact holding a Q with a dodgy kicker then the only thing that may allow you to see the turn and river cheaply would be if you flat call his opening bet. It may ring his alarm bells to slow him down. If it doesn't? Chuck the draw away quickly and concentrate on better openings to get your chips in the middle.

Try to remember that the difference here between you going for a "T.V. finish" with a straight flush and chucking your draw is £800! The majority of times it's the hands you throw away that take you higher up the cash ladder.

Gl today and keep posting.

ps. Many congrats on the FT and cash btw.

khenny wrote:Hi there m8. First thing that smacks me in face is you say in the details when setting the scene that the table is loose! If that's the case then why did you expect him to fold any Q?

No more analysis needed other than to say if he is in fact holding a Q with a dodgy kicker then the only thing that may allow you to see the turn and river cheaply would be if you flat call his opening bet. It may ring his alarm bells to slow him down. If it doesn't? Chuck the draw away quickly and concentrate on better openings to get your chips in the middle.

Try to remember that the difference here between you going for a "T.V. finish" with a straight flush and chucking your draw is £800! The majority of times it's the hands you throw away that take you higher up the cash ladder.

Gl today and keep posting.

ps. Many congrats on the FT and cash btw.

I wonder if the guy who folded his straight flush draw at the WSOP final table 2 years back is thinking that!

So... if you just want him to fold and you take the pot down - bingo - you probably did it right and just ran into a made hand that held up regardless of your outs.

However, (and just because I want to try and add an alternative!) IF you flat call the 10.4 (with 87k still to play with) you can now either hit one of your many outs on the turn (assuming you think the flush would be the winner) and then re-evaluate how to make the most of it, OR your call might just slow him down (especially as he doesn't exactly have a monster) and you might get a free river to hit your outs. If you don't improve and he shows any more interest, so be it - wave goodbye - but at least you have an option.

Not really the 'cash' way to do it, but MTTS are SUCH a long haul if you don't cash having gone out in a ball of flame with 5-high.

Well, I'd be looking to do two things at once here...

Take the guys whole stack
Not risk my whole stack

The only way to do this is to flat call imo. Although aggression is often preached, I think you're both a little too deep to shove here - You're only picking up a small amount compared to stack really.

If you both had 50k I would certainly push, but the extra chips, plus the fact that you are top 2, says that a push is too risky, and flat calling is best. You have position, why not use it, and see how much he likes the turn.

is it just me, or is the guys call with raggy Q a bit crazy?

Not a lot wrong with the shove if the guy can fold Q8 or worse, but perhaps if you'd noticed him bet/calling with weak hands before it might of been better to flat call...

As the great Gus says in his book (on page 148)

"Bottom Line no need to waste 110,000 chips on 4 high."


I know its a slightly different situation but i am definately in the call mode given if you dont hit on the turn you are still in a super healthy position....

But i definatley dont like his call

FWS

Looking at the hand its sucks.

You are favourite, you get your money in with equity in the pot.

Lol at Khenny again. The whole table had folded to you, apart from sb....so I have no idea how the comment about its wrong to think someone will fold a queen based on table profile has any anything to do with the action. When he bets he could have nothing so why not apply pressure with your draw. You want him to call....even if he has an overpair.

Sure you can pot control and hope for someone to go out but....you could just as easily get sucked out on the next hand. No decent player doesn't get there money in here. (excuse the double negative)

The only thing you could change is the all in...to some people it screams dont call me please I am weak/I have a draw....but conversely to others it will inimidate them into a fold....

Sadly for you thats poker....more often than not you win that hand. It's just a shame for you it didn't work out at the final table.