The use of software in online poker

As this seems to have sparked people off then this post is: Views on the use of software:-


Before we start out please note : ..WE ARE NOT talking about POKER BOTS, that make plays or decisions for you...These are illegal and band on all sites.

So we are talking about :-
Tracking software likes of : Holdem Manager, Poker Tracker, Poker office etc ....these track your hands

Data Mining software likes of : Idleminer, PT3, HM etc.... collects hand data even when not seated at table.

Poker results sites like of: Official poker rankings, Sharkscope, Poker table ranking etc.......websites that store results of players

Table/fish selection software: Spadeeye, telescope, table tracker etc......these find players and tables of value

Short cut keys likes of: AHK scripts, Table Ninja, Pokerpad etc....these automate tasks to 1 key or click, auto select timer etc




Well this seems to be a subject that people like to discus, all done on other forums but hot topic still it seems.
Only 2 rules are:
1) no copy and past from other forums or posts made in this forum already.
2) Be nice and no getting shitty.

To open:
Tracking software does nothing more than record hands played for post game analysis, nothing more than that recording the same information by hand.
The objection people seem to have is the use of that data once stored and specifically the manipulation and use of a live HUD (head up display), interestingly
these were never a part of tracking software until the past few years, they were always a 3rd party programs.I have no issues with using this type of software as the data has passed my eyes, and I can review my own play of hands in situations.

Data Mining software I DO have an issue with and have never used, a lot of people see no issue with this and that's there choice but for my part I disagree with any data that has not been seen 1st hand, some see such software as wrong and should be banned, and a few years ago sites such as Fulltilt and Pokerstars stopped mass mining by not storing the data of tables you were not seated at, others have only just put this into place, but there sites where Cash game Hand History data can be bought on block for a certain site, game type and limit. This in my view is collecting data for the sake of it, some argue that it's a step on the ladder when moving up limit levels, but I disagree as this does not take into account your style, play type or skill so really only gives half a windows view. Folks do have trouble with my view as I support tracking software but the difference is the " 1st hand experience" rule of thumb so you could almost say mine is a moral stance on data mining.


Results sites and my feelings are mixed here, I have no issue with a site that collects Tournament results & finishing position as these are available on the site direct anyway, look at any "finished game" on the site and all this info is there, I DO HAVE issue with sites that track"Cash tables" as this is a form of data mining, and my feelings are the same as above and lets be honest most online players are losers because it's there hobby and what price do you put on a hobby (a lot if ya play golf) but have no wish to have there cash table losses or profits broadcast to the world. you can get your self omitted from the results on these sites and would recommend doing so, official poker ranking is less of an issue as this is Tournament only based and quite useful at times.

Table selection software, these scan your tracking software, then scan a sites Cash games for a given range looking for certain players or a pre defined limit range, for these type of programs to be allowed they have to follow strict rules by the sites so as not to fall foul of the sites TOS (terms of service), most sites allow the search of a players id. and shows where they are seated if you then looked them in your tracking software you could make the choice to play them or not, table selection software automates this for you and shows the table stats which are those the site shows I.e. hands per Hr, average pot, average players in hand post flop. These are very useful tools for a quick route to finding the best games and do nothing that can't be done other ways so a valuble tool for a serious cash game player in low to mid stakes, above this they are a waste of time, I play 2/4 - 5/10 PLO or HiLo and 3/6 being my main game there are so few tables running and the face's are known to me that the software is of little use, but if your 50,100,200nl player there are time saving.


Short cut software as the name suggests reduces mouse clicks, missed hands through time outs (Rick's old fav !! lol) table size/location on screen, bet size scroll on mouse wheel (now available on most sites) a portion of a pot size bet i.e. 1/4 pot bet, 2/3 or all in etc by a single key, next table requiring action (mega useful if you multi table) again this software has to follow the sites TOS and really does what it says on the tin; Shortcuts actions. I like Table Ninja and used it in Beta 1 form quite some years ago now but it's pokerstars only, fantastic bit of software though for cash play if multi tabling, I still use AHK but my own scripts which basically just tell highlight the table that requires action will click the time button automatically for me and add-on for me in any add-on period (stars and tilt now have buttons for this) never could get the bugger to work 100% on laddies oh well, there are no moral issues surrounding this type of software and if you multi table past 6 tabs this is a MUST style of software in one form or another.

I am posting the link to 2+2 forum software, for those interested or wishing to comment, at the top you will find it split into 2 forums Commercial software and free software
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45/software/

a great write up, as you are well aware, i don't use these software gadgets, but i don't deny that they are useful. you have made things a lot clearer and if people chose to use the "fair" ones then fine

my stance is firm, i will never use them, but thats my choice, when i jump on my horse and head to a live poker game, they won't let me in with my laptop (and they whinge about the horse 5h1tting everywhere)

its my opinion poker should be played they way it is supposed to be, brain power versus brain power. obviously bringing poker to the internet has done marvelous things for the game, but it has also brought the window of opportunity to computer boffins to make millions out of these various dtifferent gadgets (some fair some unfair) but still imo spoil the game(my opinion not everyone elses)

i am not a technophone and certainly not a fossil, i mean i have a zx spectrum to play poker on and i just bought one of those microwave thingy's (can't get a picture on it tho)

in a nutshell i just wish the game was played the way its meant to be, thats all

I do not use tracking software, I play the old fashioned way, relying on my intellect and memory.

I did test Pokertracker once, but only really used it AFTER my sessions to see what hands were costing me money & to make pretty graphs of my profits.

Hi evo.
Your right ...........but what got me just a tad was the advice to buy it.
It was bad advice,very bad advice....book a mentoring session and learn far more than this will ever aid you.
Mate I have alot of respect for you and have apologised already if I mistook your words and wrote them different.
I stand by my stance tho poker software is bad I can learn an average player more in 1 day than this will in a week.
This is my point(you dont need it)it costs money and I feel people become self reliant.
Im not saying people become bots either what im saying is a player needs to learn the basic maths themselves or through someone who can teach them.
I know a few guys using this and everyone has the same "im sick of badbeats"blah blah blah.
No there sick of playing the game wrong and inviting them with a flawed game.

oops Missed of

Probability software likes of: Pokerstove and SnG Wizard..........Analysis post game hands, odd's vs. probability/value


Have no issue with either of these and use both, not sure why I missed the class off from original post, they offer an insight into the true value of your whole cards pre flop vs. random or know villain holding.
SnG Wizard also offers advice as what play or move to make (inbuilt security prevents the program running while a poker client is open, so can't be used in live game).