another WWYD

This is from a session with rick who asked me to post this.

okerStars Game #29663812049: Tournament #173033993, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2009/06/22 20:09:19 WET [2009/06/22 15:09:19 ET]
Table '173033993 65' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: mhoppy (5390 in chips)
Seat 2: 1964bingo (2735 in chips)
Seat 3: goldenaxes (3855 in chips)
Seat 4: rahme2001 (1960 in chips)
Seat 5: anna101 (13875 in chips)
Seat 6: DriftersEsc. (5775 in chips)
Seat 7: robbesparr (3567 in chips)
Seat 8: xrobob (5145 in chips)
Seat 9: ssylwekk (3130 in chips)
mhoppy: posts the ante 10
1964bingo: posts the ante 10
goldenaxes: posts the ante 10
rahme2001: posts the ante 10
anna101: posts the ante 10
DriftersEsc.: posts the ante 10
robbesparr: posts the ante 10
xrobob: posts the ante 10
ssylwekk: posts the ante 10
ssylwekk: posts small blind 50
mhoppy: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to mhoppy [ ]
1964bingo: calls 100
goldenaxes: calls 100
rahme2001: folds
anna101: folds
DriftersEsc.: folds
robbesparr: folds
xrobob: folds
ssylwekk: calls 50
mhoppy: raises 400 to 500
1964bingo: calls 400
goldenaxes: folds
ssylwekk: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
mhoppy: bets 600
1964bingo: raises 600 to 1200 <?

edit: from there ^ didnt realise i'd forgot to add the rest of the hand after it sorry


hoppy: raises 900 to 2100
1964bingo: calls 900
*** TURN *** [Qc Kc 6c] [2d]
mhoppy: bets 200
1964bingo: calls 125 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (75) returned to mhoppy
*** RIVER *** [Qc Kc 6c 2d] [6d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
mhoppy: shows [Ah As] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
1964bingo: shows [Js 6s] (three of a kind, Sixes)
1964bingo collected 5740 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5740 | Rake 0
Board [Qc Kc 6c 2d 6d]
Seat 1: mhoppy (big blind) showed [Ah As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 2: 1964bingo showed [Js 6s] and won (5740) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 3: goldenaxes folded before Flop
Seat 4: rahme2001 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: anna101 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: DriftersEsc. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: robbesparr folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: xrobob (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ssylwekk (small blind) folded before Flop

just on the way to bed but

I'm 4bet shoving on him end of story, most likly holding for the UTG limper here is AQo,AKo with the Ac,I dont see a set here as even in a cheap game limping UTG then min re-raising is very weak, you have him chipped 2:1 the pot already contains 2800 which reps a health pot and UTG has around 1100 left after his reraise and has made himself commited so i'd help him along that path.

Ran guys stats (which i would do if i had been at the table so not cheating post play)

If he catches his 4th club then so be it, you will still have a stack of 25bb ish to work with.

this all said bet he flips KQ lol, but i'd be feeling good to improve

evo - do i read that right - his min reraise is very weak?

Personally i think when hoppy bets 600 on the flop, the strongest thing the guy can do is make it 1200 to go. Stronger than shoving, but entirely committing himself with only 1k odd behind. There isnt anything stronger he can do then min reraise here imo. If the guy shoves i snap call, but this play made me a little wary...

Not that im suggesting your shove is bad evo, but describing oppos play on flop as weak is interesting lol

also -

most likely holding for the UTG limper here is AQo,AKo

really? Id say that was least likely holding looking at the entire hand....

a) unusual limp for AK or AQ in 1st pos.
b) limp with AK or AQ there is for one reason only - to shove ott preflop if anyone else raises, esp with his stack - perfect for this move. To then flat call heads up with AK or AQ is unlikely
c) If he has either AQ or AK he prob shoves flop not mins.

oh and can we call that a 4bet shove? surely 3bet? lol

ok, sry if this sounds like im beating on your post lol! tbh in a $10 mtt here i dont see me folding often, but i certainly give it some thought before i shove haha

Interesting one...

I dont think oppo has Ac, or 2 pair - either he has naff all, or monster - flush or set.

wildrick wrote:evo - do i read that right - his min reraise is very weak?

Personally i think when hoppy bets 600 on the flop, the strongest thing the guy can do is make it 1200 to go. Stronger than shoving, but entirely committing himself with only 1k odd behind. There isnt anything stronger he can do then min reraise here imo. If the guy shoves i snap call, but this play made me a little wary...

Not that im suggesting your shove is bad evo, but describing oppos play on flop as weak is interesting lol

a) unusual limp for AK or AQ in 1st pos.
b) limp with AK or AQ there is for one reason only - to shove ott preflop if anyone else raises, esp with his stack - perfect for this move. To then flat call heads up with AK or AQ is unlikely
c) If he has either AQ or AK he prob shoves flop not mins.

oh and can we call that a 4bet shove? surely 3bet? lol

ok, sry if this sounds like im beating on your post lol! tbh in a $10 mtt here i dont see me folding often, but i certainly give it some thought before i shove haha

Had been up all nignt m8t, sorry 3 bet shove..

Like i said i would have looked the guy stats up and when you do try officialpokerranking you will see where i base my thinking of weak play. my 1st thought were the same as yours in that the stronger play was to min raise, but the guy is a 1c (didnt know they went that low) 10c & 25c tourney player.... do they think that deep for the min raise ? I think not.

There was no previous details on the UTG player but they guy is limping to a whole table that covers him and he's stack and tourney record are not deep enough to play to tricky so i struggle to see him "trying to mix up his game" he's a very ABC ops over valued hand player,but at the same point he has played enough to know limping UTG with KK QQ is mega dangerous, so what else can he hold thats worth the call pre 66 & AJs (which i missed out yesterday)KQo, AK, AQ this guy is in the "play pretty cards" bracket and calling the raise pre i'd not rule out but put less credit on hands such as JTclubs JQclubs, there is great value to these hands UTG to a raiser but that past "ABC poker" as a large % of the time you will be taking the pot down on a bluff/semi bluff, back to the pretty looking cards JJ is also in there where he thinks it fit to min raise, i'd say though that 1 of the hooks would have to be a club.

Agree with the principle of shoving pre from a min raise with AK so less likley, AQo and AJs well that be a fair flat call pre, his min raise is weak as at this stage he does not have the stone cold nuts, and by min raising he is commited, Hoppy has shown strength pre, and shown strength on the flop he cant seriously think he's not going to get put in here, thus i see his min raise as weak, if he thinks he's inducing a shove by Hoppy then let him go to bed with that warm "i'm so clever" thought as in reality the shove from Hoppy should be based on his Short Stack and the pot odd's oh and lastly the pocket Aces.

So this all said we are looking at a "ABC player" in a $10 tourney, where i'm not playing for my tourney life where i have already cbet and going to cost me around 1600 to put in a player i see as week IMO....SHOVE.

In a $100 tourney i'd be giving great thought to folding here, but over the years I have given far to much credit/thought in cheap games to this sort of play that I now take the "he dont have the flush/set" line and if he does Hey ho


Hey m8t beat my posts any time ya like as it's much better than when ya being "nice" or "PC" all the time,and it's rare i'm right as my girlfriend likes to keep telling me !! LOL

if it was bigger tourn and oppo had same stack as us, id be worried, that min raise is scary.

But here i think i just ship em in and hope he has bare

lol he had J6ss?

I can only assume he mis read his hand and thought he had made flush with Jc6c, or at least J of clubs, lmao.

This is early in the mtt and stacks are still pretty good, if I have the Ac I undoubtedly ship in here but I am happy to fold in this situation, his range includes a large bare club and also KQ, I dont have time to do the maths against his range but we are not a huge favorite against anything he holds.

in this case you have to get em in i think, its not that much more.

On the other hand, id be interested to know what everyone would do if the stacks were both deeper... I h8 getting all my money in drawing dead....

Intresting hand and i reckon OPPO played the "steal" attempt well but at the wrong time!!with the min raise.

Inevitable suckout tho

bilthebandit wrote:Intresting hand and i reckon OPPO played the "steal" attempt well but at the wrong time!!with the min raise.

Inevitable suckout tho

oi zen.

get back to the other forum