$50 MTT Hand

Hi guys,

Here is an interesting hand which I would appreciate comments on. It is from a $50 MTT that i played earlier today...I don't usually do $50 buy in as that is a bit steep for me but thought I would give it a go tonight as my friend was playing in it and I made 100 quid on cash Friday night!

It was a double stack game so we started with 3000 chips, here are the details:

• 45 minutes into game
  
• My image is loose (or at least should be as I seem to have played a lot of hands - table is quite tight)
  
• Like I said before, Will Hill history doesn't show the stack sizes for me, but the people in the hand all had just below 3000
  
• I don't have much information on the original raiser (Player 1), altho he doesn't appear to have played many hands

Player 1 - Raise 120
Me (Hopelesgory) - Call 120
Player 3 - fold
Player 4 - fold
Player 5 - fold
Player 6 - fold
Player 7 - fold
Player 8 - call 120
Player 9 - small blind 20, fold
Player 10 - big blind 40, fold

Flop (pot is 420)


Player 1 - check
me (Hopelesglory) - raise 320
Player 8 - call 320
Player 1 - call 320

Turn (pot is 1380)



Player 1 - check
me (hopelesglory) - raise 690
Player 3 - fold
Player 1 - raise 1380

I then folded with about 1200 remaining in my stack (me and Player 1 both had about the same amount of chips..him maybe a few hundred more)

Although I could not put him on a hand, I felt like his play represented something really strong.

I could not put him on AA or KK or AQ because I figured he would have played the flop differently, either betting out or check-raising...because there 6/7 hearts and he would want to charge draws (especially vs 2 other ppl) and less likely K or Q hand because i was holding a K and Q.

But then I could not put him on 77 or 66 (i.e. trips) because he raised under the gun and had not been very active...this didn't seem feasible

Some other holdings he could have potentially had were AK of hearts or QQ, these would line up with his play?

So in conclusion I haven't a clue what he had and am not sure if he was beating me or not - but I'm fairly sure it would have cost me all my chips on the river to find out.

However sometimes if I can't figure out my oppenants cards, then I call if the odds are good (A-because sometimes when I can't figure out an oppenants holding or am even close, it is because they are bluffing! and B-because if they do have me beat, at least I have some more information that even if knocks me out of the tournament it may make me a better player in the future, and they deserve the chips for their good play!)

However (maybe disheartened), a went out not too long later without putting up a good fight (seemed to be short on chips and short on cards!) - so feel like that hand cost me the game anyway.

A check on the turn seems more reasonable in hindsight, as that keeps the pot size controlable and gives me opportunities to escape later in the hand - I think I bet because I felt I was ahead at the time and wanted to charge out any draws (e.g. 2 hearts or straight or even a QJ/Q10/mid pair)

As always, any comments appreciated (be critical!!) The feedback I have recieved in the other posts have been really good and informative (and made positive affects on my game!)

Steve

Preflop:

with everyone being on 3k, and the blinds still being small, this isn't a particularly bad play pre.

However it's not particularly good either - There are simply too many players still to act behind you, who will have position on you if they decide to call, and if they reraise you cant call.

If you'd been in middle or especially late position then I'd certainly see a flop, but in 2nd pos I'd be happier to dump it. Mainly because I dont want to give 8 people the chance to reraise and for me to pay 120 without even seeing a flop.

KQ also plays quite badly against a tight players opening range from 1st position - his 2 most likely hands are AK and AQ. (There are more ways to make these hands than AA KK QQ etc so these are statictically more likely.

I think you can find better spots to play a pot than this one, with plenty of time to get one, and I'd just fold right here. (Note - If 1st pos folds and you raise 120, this is much better than calling his 120, you instantly look like you have a better hand)

Flop:

I like the bet size, around 2/3 of pot is fine here. There's no need to make it any higher - anyone who is calling 320 is still calling 400-500. Any lower makes it a bit too cheap, and also looks weak.

However, you get 2 callers. The fact that it's 2 is important. 1 caller could be drawing, but how likely is it that both callers are drawing?

As always, it would be good to have some more information on the other players at the table, but unless they're both playing loose, or they've both somehow picked up draws (and with a raise pre from one of them this looks unlikely), then you have to consider you are behind right here.

Turn:

With the above in mind, I'd rather check the turn, especially since one player has already checked.

Although a bet might win you the pot, it also (as you assumed) might cost you your entire stack by the river. At the end of the day, you have top pair with K kicker, and bb is 40 - I certainly wouldn't want to make this pot any bigger at this stage.

As it is you bet, get reraised, and make what is almost certainly a good fold. The size of your bet suggests that ou are committed to your hand, and yet oppo has still reraised you - this looks v strong to me.

Incidentally this is why a check is better than a smaller bet - If you bet half what you did and get reraised, then you looked weaker, so oppo might of noticed, and you now might be getting bluffed off the best hand.

Overall, you didnt play the hand particularly badly, you just ended up with a lot of your chips in with a medium good hand. You could of folded pre flop and avoided the whole problem, but the bigger mistake was on the turn - after 2 callers on the flop, there's just too much chance you're behind to make a big bet imo.

As for what oppo had, it's not easy to put him on a particular hand, he's played it quite strangely, but from the info youve given, if i was pushed I'd say QQ, or a bit of a strangely played AQ.

easy for me,it an instant fold with kq in that pos,to many peeps behind to repop,and I HATE the flat call pre m8,it makes you look weak,i think there a thread on here were the waster, a mentor says you get rewared on certain sites for folding AJ in early position so def a no go for me with kq.
as to what he had,well that a tuff 1,but 1 thing i would say is that you were def behind imo

I think it depends completely on your style of play. You say you play lose (I would question that though from the types of posts you've done already) so the call of 120 is fine for me.

This is a drawing hand, so the flat call isn't "weak" as hooooooooooooooooo(that enough?)ders says IMO. I'd play this hand every time I got it and against any opponent. I just think, as Rick says, you should have checked on the turn. I don't think the bet's necessarily bad either though, and considering the site/pot/type of players, he probably had 45 sooted!

Ul - keep it up, I love muffing the tighty-tighties.

MADV wrote:I think it depends completely on your style of play. You say you play lose (I would question that though from the types of posts you've done already) so the call of 120 is fine for me.

This is a drawing hand, so the flat call isn't "weak" as hooooooooooooooooo(that enough?)ders says IMO. I'd play this hand every time I got it and against any opponent. I just think, as Rick says, you should have checked on the turn. I don't think the bet's necessarily bad either though, and considering the site/pot/type of players, he probably had 45 sooted!

Ul - keep it up, I love muffing the tighty-tighties.

if flat callin a raise from raiser utg with 8 behind not weak i dont what is then!!!

I think Rick has done a pretty good job of summing this hand up.

I dont blame you for playing the hand...but aj kq kj can get you in so much trouble especially early on when you hityour hand and still dont know if it is good.

One of the trickiest things about the hand is the texture of the flop. Most hands even a set (qqq) is unlikely would check this flop....it is way to draw heavy to be safe.

Pos 1 could check to ensure the turn card is safe but it seems kind of dumb as he gets no information.

In online tournaments, you have such little information on your opponent it is impossible to know whathe is thinking, also when the buy in is smallish who knows how seriously they are playing.

TBH I feel like I want to disagree with the whole thread and say that there was a decent chance you were good. I base this solely on the fact that he opted to check the flop....66 and 77 are not out of his range (as you have no idea about how he plays) qqq is very unlikely..so given that there are 3 players in the hand why would he slow play. In a 50 dollar tourney unless I know the guy is tricky, my money can easily go in there.

In tough spots like that it is all about how someone tells the story of a hand. I can see why you folded...it was early and you can convince yourself it was too early to stack off...but you have to ask how many people check a 3 way suited and connected flop with a hand that beats yours.

As odd as it may seem I would bet that he more likely has 45 suited or trip 3's than any of the other hands discussed if we are assuming we are ahead.

I would love to know what he really had so let me know if you find out. If you can prove you were behind on flop I will give you 2:1 on $25 (enough for you to try another $50 tourney). If you make the bet and I am right (that you were ahead on flop) you can donate the $25 to a charity of my choosing.

Honesty though please...

Moral of story though is....pretty cards can and maybe should be folded...in that position pre flop....at that stage of the tourney....with such little info.

haha ok,

Really good posts MrMiami (this one and the 10$ and 20$ hands) - I had to read them all a couple of times to fully take them in - there is a lot of factors to think about! It seems like my preflop play is getting me into unnecessary situations that are costing me chips...

I searched the history of the hand and the villians name was "idunderscore28", so if I can find him I will take you up on that bet and ask him to revealing what his holding was!

Steve

Your best bet is to contact the site...they will have a record of the hand as your opponent will most likely lie or not remember - I certainly couldnt remember a hand. Website validation is needed to collect on the bet

As far as pre flop play goes you dont have to play like a nit....some players like to accumulate chips at the beginning of a tourney when everyone else is conservative. You have to work out what is best for you.

The problem is that to do this you have to be very aware of board texture and bet sizing...you must be able to tell the story of a hand from the beginning to the end....no good trying to pick it up on the turn or river.

Even when you are loose hand selection can become problematic. Those strong looking hands AJ, A10, KQ, KJ, K10 often leave you in limbo as they hit the stronger ranges of your opponents. When you are playing loose and opt to play the hands; assuming your opponents are adjusting to you and giving you more action these may be winning hands....but this is where pot control and bet sizing come into play.

My advice is...as you grow into your game...let these go until you feel more confident and become prepared to make some early exits.