20$ MTT Hand

• 1 hour into tourny
  
• 20$ freezeout, around 160 started 70-80 odd remaining (1500 chips start).
  
• Current table is quite loose, not much preflop raising, lots of limping.
  
• My image is quite tight, im limping in late positions when flops are cheap and raising big pre flop with premium.
  
• The oppenant in the hand appears quite loose and likes to call people down.
  
• The rest of the information you should be able to deduct from the picture (I'm on the dealer button)

CARNIVORE04 wrote:Firstly may i say welcome to the forum and what a good first post.

Alas we realise both you and kenny are super sooooted fish

I mean limping anywhere with J7 deserves a good busting in my book so thats the first lesson learned on the hand DON'T LIMP J7 SOOOOTED position or not.

Nonetheless lets say i accidently called and was in the hand then i have to agree with you mate on reraising his flop bet cause as you said yourself he "appears quite loose and likes to call people down" so why not make him pay righ there and then if he is bigger fish than you.

If think your hand is vulnerable to overpairs pairing the board and without reraising him you get no info but rather give him an opportunity to catch up or in this case catch runner runner.

Anyways kennys a bit soft on newcomers but i as the forum champion believe in tough love.

khenny wrote:

CARNIVORE04 wrote:Firstly may i say welcome to the forum and what a good first post.

Alas we realise both you and kenny are super sooooted fish

I mean limping anywhere with J7 deserves a good busting in my book so thats the first lesson learned on the hand DON'T LIMP J7 SOOOOTED position or not.

Nonetheless lets say i accidently called and was in the hand then i have to agree with you mate on reraising his flop bet cause as you said yourself he "appears quite loose and likes to call people down" so why not make him pay righ there and then if he is bigger fish than you.

If think your hand is vulnerable to overpairs pairing the board and without reraising him you get no info but rather give him an opportunity to catch up or in this case catch runner runner.

Anyways kennys a bit soft on newcomers but i as the forum champion believe in tough love.

Quality retort m8!

I love the subtle, read between the lines way you deliver your message!

There are arguments to fold nearly any hand m8 but I got to say if you can get to see a cheap flop with suited connectors I'm in like Flynn every day of the week. Especially if I is on da button!

khenny wrote:Well let me ask you a question?

Are they soooooted? Are they connecteeeeeeed?

Yup m8 I do it every day with suited connectors and if I hit I don't even turn a mild shade of pink!

CARNIVORE04 wrote:

khenny wrote:Well let me ask you a question?

Are they soooooted? Are they connecteeeeeeed?

Yup m8 I do it every day with suited connectors and if I hit I don't even turn a mild shade of pink!

Nope thats cause you a permanent shade of fishy green

khenny wrote:

CARNIVORE04 wrote:

khenny wrote:Well let me ask you a question?

Are they soooooted? Are they connecteeeeeeed?

Yup m8 I do it every day with suited connectors and if I hit I don't even turn a mild shade of pink!

Nope thats cause you a permanent shade of fishy green

Salmon are pink!

hopelesglory wrote:[...]I've not used Ladbrokes before..is there a first depositer bonus I can take advantage off?

MrMiami wrote:Hi All,

I am somewhat embarassed to say that, as a mentor this is my first post in forum.

I feel that this hand brings up some interesting points which I think have been completely ignored. So please feel free to post any disagreement or questions.

First of all....

It is always difficult to play against a limped monster as it is obviously disguised. I think we can ignore the fact that limping with ak diamonds is a pretty bad move unless the intention of the limper was to extract a raise from an over agg squeezy player who is yet to act.

Given that the villain has been defined as loose/passive one could assume that they were limping just to make sure they hit something before the pot gets too big. Ignoring how wrong this is on many levels the real discussion should be about how j7 suited was played on the button.

First off I strongly disagree with the poster who says they would play this hand 10 out of 10 times on the button. Poker is about adaptation and gone are the days where murdering players in position is a dramatically effective tactic. Any player with half a brain will be applying alot of pressure to a serial position raiser. You will find that the best players will at times narrow their button/ cut off range on the basis that it is perceived that this is their widest hand range. As such narrowing that button raising range will induce alot of action from weaker hands and allow you to build pots with strong hands in position. You will find that people give you less credit in these situations and are prepared to stack off alot lighter. Although this is only a small tourney it is best to get into these good habits for larger events. With so many players using tracking equipment it is easy to single out the players who think they can win tournaments from the button. On the same basis you will find that opening hands that play well when they hit the flop...910 suited 68suited etc etc can be opened utg....you will get credit for stronger holdings and are only likely to get raised by huge hands that you wnt to avoid....anyway i am going off on a tangent!

So first off....you have 3300 chips and if you had decided to raise you would be committing 10% of your stack + a continuation to winning the pot. Unless it slaps you in the face like it did you are donking off alot of chips when you cannot afford to do so....so contemplating a raise with a average hand against a player who you say is a station is careless. But, you decide to limp....Now you are risking less but ensuring that everyone knows you do not have a strong hand. Given that the villain is loose passive and will be tough to push off a hand, do you really think this is the type of hand you want to play? More often that not you will miss the flop and then end up trying to bet out a guy who is capable of check-calling you down. If he was tight passive...raise it up and exploit his limpiness but why do this when he wont fold?

So, it seems the biggest mistake is playing the hand in the first place.

Given that you luck out and the flop smacks you straight in the face, you have to use this opportunity to make as much as you can.

The villain it has to be said played this in a very strange way. He misses with his monster and decides to fire a pot size bet out (we can discuss bet sizing another time). Your friend is 100% wrong to think you should raise him now. you have position and you are 99% ahead so why would you risk losing him. When the villain checks you are entirely correct to fire the turn as you want to build the pot...no problems there. I am guessing that the villain believes he is now trapping you. When the ace hits, it is far from an obvious check.....you have to bet. You cannot put him on any set...you have j7 so jjj 777 is unlikely...he could limp with 33 but if he bets out to build the pot why would he check turn and risk losing a bet? (although this is counter intuitive to the fact he checks his king)....aa kk you can assume would have been raised pre....so the hands that now beat you are hands made on the river....you cannot know he is playing his hand like a complete moron so you would have to assume that kj and k7(if he would play that hand) would have bet turn...which leaves you with 3 hands that beat you...a3 a7 and aj..which would make sense that he would bet and check and q 10 which he might have taken a stab with and checked when he hit his open ender.



As it turns out ak is the same as a3,a7,aj and unfortunately for you it was a cooler but you cant check your hand down scared of 3 or 4 unlikely hands when you have a station who can pay you off with another 20 hands that don't beat you. The call is fine on the river, although i wouldnt hate it if you stacked off. If he was attempting to rep an ace on the river then you are not gaining anything but a fold when you 3 bet his river reraise... so I like the call.



Unfortunately because tournaments are so much more finite than cash games you will get caught out by weird plays from time to time and head off to kiss the rail. However, if you hold back when you do hit hands like that you will never put yourself in a position to win a tournament. I would rather give myself a shot at winning a tournament than just fade away through fear. You dont get a prize for the best pot control....It's just a sick turn and river. Leave the pot control and caution to those times in the tournament when your opponent is likely to have a legitimate hand or you feel it is prudent to pot control when you and the villain are both deep and your holding is marginal.

I hope this helps.

Good Luck!